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#1 tlerner87

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 08:23 PM

Hi, but Ive just ordered some bits, but I know nothing about ICE!!

1 pair 350W RMS 6x9s
1 pair 90W RMS 10cm speakers (for behind my dash air vents)
1 3000W 2-channel amp.
(+ 3000W wiring kit)
Im going to use my bog standard Kenwood CD player with it.
all from theloudest.co.uk (but didnt pay those prices!)

basically, can my amp run both sets of speakers? or shall i wire up the 6x9s to the amp and the 10cms to the head unit?

I dont want a sub because they take up space and I dont want mega bass, apparently these 6x9s are pretty bassy anyway.

If I put the 6x9s on a speaker board under the seats, will it sound worse than mounting in on the parcel shelf? because ur aiming it at the backs of chairs?

Thanks for any help you give me. :D

#2 Rob Himself

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 09:06 PM

Hi, but Ive just ordered some bits, but I know nothing about ICE!!

- Well that's clever then... how d'you know what you've bought?


1 pair 350W RMS 6x9s
1 pair 90W RMS 10cm speakers (for behind my dash air vents)
1 3000W 2-channel amp.
(+ 3000W wiring kit)
Im going to use my bog standard Kenwood CD player with it.
all from theloudest.co.uk (but didnt pay those prices!)


- Coming from theloudest.co.uk I can tell you here and now that it will be absolutely nowhere near 3000w. I'd be shocked if it hit 1000w PEAK power.


basically, can my amp run both sets of speakers? or shall i wire up the 6x9s to the amp and the 10cms to the head unit?

- If you'd bought a 4-channel amp, then yes. But as yours is 2 channel, then no. The solution you suggestd would be most logical.


I dont want a sub because they take up space and I dont want mega bass, apparently these 6x9s are pretty bassy anyway.

- 6x9's are a story for another day, but in summary - the 6x9's from behind you will drown out the front speakers, so majority of the sound will be coming from behind you. When you watch TV, you don't stare at it with the back of your head, do you?!


If I put the 6x9s on a speaker board under the seats, will it sound worse than mounting in on the parcel shelf? because ur aiming it at the backs of chairs?

-
Erm... On this sort of scale, positioning won't make a huge amount of difference. Personally (if I was in your situation, referring to my comments on 6x9's above) I'd have them in a speaker board and not on the parcel shelf.


Rob

#3 hystrix cristata

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 09:15 PM

When you watch TV, you don't stare at it with the back of your head, do you?!


I'm sure I have read this on this forum before. Does no-one besides me have surround sound? Or ears on the side of their head that can hear sound from any direction? I'm pretty sure you don't stare at the TV with the back of your head because then you wouldn't be able to see it, it has nothing to do with the sound. Ever been to the cinema? Where are the speakers in there?

#4 tlerner87

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 09:46 PM

I bought it on a recommendation from a friend who has them. His is really loud! haha. It was very reasonable priced so im happy. Im not after a fantastic system by any means i just want something with a bit more than my current 20quid halfords speakers! I know about the amp not actually being 3000W, but it didnt cost much! Cant really go wrong there!

I think i will put them under the seats, to keep everything out of thieving bas*ards sight!

#5 langers2k

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 10:06 PM

When you watch TV, you don't stare at it with the back of your head, do you?!


I'm sure I have read this on this forum before. Does no-one besides me have surround sound? Or ears on the side of their head that can hear sound from any direction? I'm pretty sure you don't stare at the TV with the back of your head because then you wouldn't be able to see it, it has nothing to do with the sound. Ever been to the cinema? Where are the speakers in there?


Comparing the sound systems that you use in your car and for 5.1 audio like that is silly.

5.1 needs to have speakers all around you, otherwise the concept fails.

With stereo sound which is what you will normally be dealing with in car, the *best* placement is to have a two speakers, at head height (the level you will be listening at), so they form a equilateral triangle with your head. The distance is down to the speakers and the environment around you.

Obviously this is almost impossible in any car, especially a mini. If the car were to have a single occupant at all times, then you could try and do the triangle thing but its going to fail, this is even more so when dealing with more than one occupant. The next best thing it to make the speakers as far away from the listeners as possible, this way the distance the sound has to travel is more equal, resulting in a better stereo image.

In a mini the best place for this is the foot wells. But then the sound stage is well below your head height, so by using components you can have the midrange in the foot well, and the tweeters closer to head height to lift the sound stage and improve the audio.

Bass is non-directional, it is harder for us to tell where a low frequency noise is coming from compared to a high on. This is why most home systems have a single sub, because you don't need any more to get a good results. Obviously putting subs in the front of a mini is hard due to the lack of space, this is why people use the boot or under the rear seat, and as it is non-directional it will improve the low end lots, resulting in a more balanced, better sounding system.

Although the concepts of sound are the same, you need to tailor them to the environment you have and what you want to achieve.

For sound quality (not volume or bass) you need speakers in front of you. It is that simple...

Apart from that, do as Rob said, add a couple of wires, press on and you will have sounds in your mini, job done! Post a pic or two in the "Show us your ICE" thread when your done :D

Edited by langers2k, 29 March 2008 - 10:07 PM.


#6 hystrix cristata

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 10:32 PM

haha, that is a very funny read (equal lateral triangle, I love that bit the most) and adds to the point that in a mini it really doesn't matter where you put the speakers it's that small it's never going to matter. the only reason I said anything is saying you don't watch tv with the back of your head is one of the stupidest things I've ever read and the whole reply to the first post seemed to be a dig rather than any help. The best thing you could do is get some awesome headphones and just forget all about speakers :D

#7 langers2k

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 11:00 PM

haha, that is a very funny read (equal lateral triangle, I love that bit the most) and adds to the point that in a mini it really doesn't matter where you put the speakers it's that small it's never going to matter. the only reason I said anything is saying you don't watch tv with the back of your head is one of the stupidest things I've ever read and the whole reply to the first post seemed to be a dig rather than any help. The best thing you could do is get some awesome headphones and just forget all about speakers :D


Funny but all true :w00t:

Although you can't put them in ideal positions, some positions are better than others. The sound would be massively different if you had speakers on the rear shelf/rear seat or in the dash/foot wells, and they should sound better with them in front of you. Although the TV thing might not be the best metaphor (as with TV your more interesting in the image than the sound), the idea is there.

And yes, headphones would be by far the best option for sound, and the cheapest to the quality. However its illegal to use headphones when driving, you can cover one ear I think? :P

I guess it comes across as a dig, I doubt it was intended to but the info and advice is good!

#8 Rob Himself

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Posted 30 March 2008 - 11:51 AM

When you watch TV, you don't stare at it with the back of your head, do you?!


I'm sure I have read this on this forum before. Does no-one besides me have surround sound? Or ears on the side of their head that can hear sound from any direction? I'm pretty sure you don't stare at the TV with the back of your head because then you wouldn't be able to see it, it has nothing to do with the sound. Ever been to the cinema? Where are the speakers in there?


Ageed, but with surround sound the MAJORITY of the sound comes from the front-left and front-right channels.

#9 hystrix cristata

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Posted 30 March 2008 - 11:57 AM

is it really illegal to wear headphones? what difference would it make if you can hear outside or not, I'm sure deaf people are allowed to drive. I'm going to go investigate

#10 Stephen Mini-magazine

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Posted 30 March 2008 - 02:10 PM

is it really illegal to wear headphones? what difference would it make if you can hear outside or not, I'm sure deaf people are allowed to drive. I'm going to go investigate

its funny because you don't understand it?

speaker placement is very important and the advice given here is pretty good

#11 Rob Himself

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Posted 30 March 2008 - 02:27 PM

is it really illegal to wear headphones? what difference would it make if you can hear outside or not, I'm sure deaf people are allowed to drive. I'm going to go investigate


Per se, no.
But the police will charge you, most likely, udner driving without due care and attention.

The difference is that you can't hear if someone beeps you, emergency vehicle sirens, the noises from your own car.

#12 hystrix cristata

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Posted 30 March 2008 - 02:42 PM

is it really illegal to wear headphones? what difference would it make if you can hear outside or not, I'm sure deaf people are allowed to drive. I'm going to go investigate


Per se, no.
But the police will charge you, most likely, udner driving without due care and attention.

The difference is that you can't hear if someone beeps you, emergency vehicle sirens, the noises from your own car.


I've been googling this and not been able to find out if it's legal or not, some people say it is some people say it's not. On the whole not being able to hear emergency vehicles etc is covered in my point about deaf people, they can't hear anything but can still drive (I checked this aswell). Bikers can also have helmets that block out all back ground noise and some have headphones built in (very much legal) and they can't hear emergency vehicles so I don't see why that would make a difference. I'm not taking the *yellow human water*, this is a serious question, is it legal or not to wear headphones and does anyone have actual evidence/proof from a government/DVLA source because I can't find out, all I can find is some people say it is and some people say it's not. On a side note is there a legal limit on how loud you can have music on in your car as this would give the same if not worse effects that having headphones on would.

For the other post, I do understand it and I found it funny as it's an impossible task to make it perfect, especially the equilateral triangle comment just because I'm a mathematician

#13 1an

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Posted 30 March 2008 - 04:12 PM

is it really illegal to wear headphones? what difference would it make if you can hear outside or not, I'm sure deaf people are allowed to drive. I'm going to go investigate


Per se, no.
But the police will charge you, most likely, udner driving without due care and attention.

The difference is that you can't hear if someone beeps you, emergency vehicle sirens, the noises from your own car.


I've been googling this and not been able to find out if it's legal or not, some people say it is some people say it's not. On the whole not being able to hear emergency vehicles etc is covered in my point about deaf people, they can't hear anything but can still drive (I checked this aswell). Bikers can also have helmets that block out all back ground noise and some have headphones built in (very much legal) and they can't hear emergency vehicles so I don't see why that would make a difference. I'm not taking the *yellow human water*, this is a serious question, is it legal or not to wear headphones and does anyone have actual evidence/proof from a government/DVLA source because I can't find out, all I can find is some people say it is and some people say it's not. On a side note is there a legal limit on how loud you can have music on in your car as this would give the same if not worse effects that having headphones on would.

For the other post, I do understand it and I found it funny as it's an impossible task to make it perfect, especially the equilateral triangle comment just because I'm a mathematician


when i had all my stereo equipment in my bmw i used to have it turned up loud, i was once stoped by the police and advised that it wasnt safe etc. they can fine you, the same way they can fine you for having an excessivly loud exhaust aswell,




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