14 replies to this topic

[langers2k]

Right I know that re-shelling a car into a non original spec shell (ie fibreglass) is likely to loose its identity.

However, it is possible to replace every panel on a car or modify the shell radically without loosing the identity. I don't know if there are any rules/regulations on the panels you use either.

Does this mean that you could replace every panel on a mini with fibreglass and end up with a fibreglass shell but retain the original identity? Or would it be a case of proving that you hadn't just replaced the shell?

[scrog]

found this on the dvla web site
might help
Vehicles that have been rebuilt using a mix of new or used parts
In order to retain the original registration mark:

cars and car-derived vans must use:
The original unmodified chassis or unaltered bodyshell (i.e. body and chassis as one unit - monocoque); or a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original supported by evidence from the dealer or manufacturer (e.g. receipt).

And two other major components from the original vehicle - ie suspension (front & back); steering assembly; axles (both); transmission or engine.

If a second-hand chassis or monocoque bodyshell is used, the vehicle must pass a an enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA) or single vehicle approval (SVA) test after which a "Q" prefix registration number will be allocated.

motorcycles must use:
Unmodified frame (original or new) and two other major components from the original vehicle; forks, wheels and engine or gear box.

If a second-hand frame is used the vehicle must pass a motorcycle single vehicle approval (MSVA) test after which a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.
Kit Cars
Where all the parts of a vehicle are supplied new by the manufacturer. Subject to the provision of satisfactory receipts and a certificate of newness these vehicles will be registered under a current registration mark.

Kit cars which have been built using not more than one reconditioned component will also be registered under a current mark. This is subject to the provision of satisfactory evidence that the component has been reconditioned to an "as new" standard. An ESVA, SVA or MSVA test will be required.
Kit Conversions
This is where a kit of new parts is added to an existing vehicle or old parts are added to a kit comprising a manufactured body, chassis or monocoque bodyshell. The general appearance of the vehicle will change and result in a revised description on the registration certificate.

A vehicle will retain its donor registration mark if either the original unmodified chassis or unaltered monocoque bodyshell and two other major components are used. If a new monocoque bodyshell or chassis from a specialist kit manufacturer is used (or an altered chassis or bodyshell from an existing vehicle) together with two major components from a donor vehicle, an age related mark will be assigned. The mark will be based on the age of the donor vehicle. An ESVA, SVA or MSVA test will be required to register the vehicle.

Where there are insufficient parts from a donor vehicle or in cases where the original registration mark is unknown, an ESVA, SVA or MSVA certificate will be required to register the vehicle and a 'Q' prefix registration number will be allocated.

[Geehawk]

If you have replaced every panel with fibreglass alternatives (which I seriously doubt is possible anyway) then you have replaced the shell. If you do it over a long period of time then maybe in theory, but that would be nigh on impossible to do.

[langers2k]

If you have replaced every panel with fibreglass alternatives (which I seriously doubt is possible anyway) then you have replaced the shell. If you do it over a long period of time then maybe in theory, but that would be nigh on impossible to do.

Which panels are likely to be a problem? I assume you would need a spaceframe of sorts to keep body strength so if everything attached to that then the fibreglass wouldn't be load bearing... Can you legally add a spaceframe to a mini? Or does that on its own count as a significant enough change to need to SVA etc?


Cheers for that scrog, I have read it before.

Kit Conversions
This is where a kit of new parts is added to an existing vehicle or old parts are added to a kit comprising a manufactured body, chassis or monocoque bodyshell. The general appearance of the vehicle will change and result in a revised description on the registration certificate.

Not sure if that would mean you would loose the original ID or not though.

[Geehawk]

The bulkhead, floors and sills for starters.
If its a space frame then it's not a shell thats basically the same as the original is it? Its a very significant change.

[langers2k]

So basically you probably couldn't do it legally. Without all sorts of checks!

Cool, cheers for that

[Ethel]

http://www.austin-ro...anhamindexf.htm

that used to use a Mini floorpan to get round the number plate regulations, probably why the rule regarding monocoques was introduced.

It's all bureaucratic nonsense, you can put any plate you like on any other car so what's the point of Q plates?

[CharlieBrown]

As far as I know the only legal way to do it is SVA the car with the fibreglass shell. Although some people just MOT it apparently.....

I'm hoping to do just that this year so we will see what happnes.

[langers2k]

Is a standard mini good enough to pass a SVA? I am sure it fails on some aspects but I have no idea what!

[CharlieBrown]

Collapsable steering column is needed. I think thats what you might be thinking of.

Thats not a problem, one can be pinched from another car (I forget which)

[Ethel]

As far as I know the only legal way to do it is SVA the car with the fibreglass shell. Although some people just MOT it apparently.....

I'm hoping to do just that this year so we will see what happnes.

Depends how old your donor car is.

Before SVA most people just MoT'd kitcars as the donor car, possibly with some creative changes to the description on the logbook. Rumour has it there's an amnesty for those cars: if they have a current MoT, DVLA will amend their details without a need to go through SVA. You just need a friendly MoT tester who thinks if it looks like a Mini then it is a Mini.

Once had a Traffic Warden get himself in a right state because my Midas is a 'Leyland, 2 axle rigid body' as far as Swansea are concerned - got the impression he'd have liked to have me locked up for not having any badges on my car

[langers2k]

Collapsible steering column is needed. I think thats what you might be thinking of.

Thats not a problem, one can be pinched from another car (I forget which)

That sounds about right, so its just a case of sourcing a different column...

Just found this in a another topic though:

Can we just clear something up once and for all. You do not need a collapsable steering column to pass an SVA test. If you took a totally standard 1978 mini for an SVA it would pass. This would not have a collapsible steering column but does have a steering wheel designed to collapse a certain amount in the event of a frontal impact. As long as you have a standard mini steering wheel(non airbag style) on a standard mini steering column when you go for an SVA then you won't have a problem.

[The Matt]

The confusion is between the approval test needed for a 'new build' and the approval test needed for a rebuilt or radically altered vehicle.

[paulrockliffe]

When you talk about an amnesty on older vehicles, where does the burden of proof lie?

What I mean is, how do you prove when the car was reshelled, or doesn't it matter? What if the donor vehicle has had new subframes and engine during the course of its life?

[Ethel]

When you talk about an amnesty on older vehicles, where does the burden of proof lie?

What I mean is, how do you prove when the car was reshelled, or doesn't it matter? What if the donor vehicle has had new subframes and engine during the course of its life?

I've not tried putting it in to practice but I've heard it's the case from several sources. As far as I'm aware it's just intended to allow DVLA to tidy up their records for cars that are already on the road from before the changes in the rules. So, if the car was built and registered pre SVA and is on the road they will amend the description. You wouldn't have to prove when the car was reshelled as no records were necessary before SVA. You could also argue any subframe engine swaps happened after the build. It's all a bit vague and relies on the judgment of MoT testers. In reality, if you had a plaggy Mini who would really be bothered other than your insurers and possibly an MoT tester sometime in the future? Even with SVA you still need an initial MoT, I believe, so it's worth a go. My Chassis number is Midas***, if your V5 records something that obviously didn't come out of Longbridge or has something else non standard like 'coupe', 'convertible' or 2 seats in its description I think you'd have little trouble.