12 replies to this topic

[Norbert]

Hi everyone,

I was fortunate enough recently to be poking around in a scrappy when a 1275cc Metro was driven in to be scrapped. After a quick look-see to make sure it ran, held oil pressure (well, according to the idiot light at least) and didn't jump out of gear I bought the engine and 'box. Now I've got it home, typing the engine number (12HE72 101886) into Guessworks' excellent engine number decoder tells me that I've got a 3.6:1 Final drive ratio - which may well be a bit short for what I want to use the car for.

So, a couple of questions:

1) The engine is stated on the decoder as 'Police Spec' - what difference to civilian spec would this entail? The 'donor' car was a civilian (as far as I could see) Metro 1.3L, '89 on an 'F', able to use 95RON unleaded.

2) What Final Drive should I go for? I intend to use the car for local runs (to work and back, all 30-limit apart from one 300-yard stretch of 40-limit), B-road cobweb-blasting runs and a few motorway/A-road miles as well. I'm thinking 3.1:1 or 3.44:1, any suggestions would be gratefully received!

3) The 'recipient' car is an '87 on a 'D' 998cc Mini Advantage. What Final Drive ratio have I got, and would there be any issues swapping the crown-wheel and pinion from one unit to the other?

Thanks very much for your time, any answers gratefully received!

Yours

Norbert

[minimanclive]

Without looking up the engine number, i'd have assumed that the Metro engine would have a 3.44:1 final drive, unless it was an HLE model then it would be 2.95:1.

Your Mini will have a 3.1:1 Final drive.

When I did a similar conversion I kept the entire gearbox from my Mini, and just put the 1275 engine onto it. But you could of course swap the crown wheel and pinion. I just did it the lazy way.

[Guess-Works.com]

Not necessarily.... metro's had bigger wheels, the norm' for the metro was the 3.6 for the 998, and 3.4 with 1275's, there are some excpetions... like the HLE's which have different FD's (longer), and as you have found out 'police spec' which generally had shorter FD's ( probably because they had all the junk to carry around ), would be interesting to see the chassis plate of the metro...

There's no reason why you could not put the 1275 engine on the gearbox of your original 998, they're essentially the same and you won't get any complications with speedo's etc...

Your mini however, could be either 3.4 or 3.1...

[Norbert]

Without looking up the engine number, i'd have assumed that the Metro engine would have a 3.44:1 final drive, unless it was an HLE model then it would be 2.95:1.

Your Mini will have a 3.1:1 Final drive.

When I did a similar conversion I kept the entire gearbox from my Mini, and just put the 1275 engine onto it. But you could of course swap the crown wheel and pinion. I just did it the lazy way.

My thoughts exactly Clive, I was a little surprised when I saw the 3.6:1 figure, didn't even know the ratio existed - although I have now seen Crown-wheel and pinion sets on the internet. It could - sort of - have gone with the 'Police spec' as I suppose the constabulary's Metros were used for town rather than motorway work! I may use the crown-wheel and pinion from the Mini when I swap over in the winter, if it is in good nick.

Further digging on Police-spec Metro engines (although this was definitely a civilian car it came out of, so not sure if this is applicable) has revealed MG Cam and cross-pin diff as part of the spec, handy as I was going to find an MG cam for it anyway and a cross-pin diff is no bad thing. All will be revealed when the engine is stripped!

Yours

Norbert

[Norbert]

Not necessarily.... metro's had bigger wheels, the norm' for the metro was the 3.6 for the 998, and 3.4 with 1275's, there are some excpetions... like the HLE's which have different FD's (longer), and as you have found out 'police spec' which generally had shorter FD's ( probably because they had all the junk to carry around ), would be interesting to see the chassis plate of the metro...

There's no reason why you could not put the 1275 engine on the gearbox of your original 998, they're essentially the same and you won't get any complications with speedo's etc...

Your mini however, could be either 3.4 or 3.1...

Whoops, was typing the above when this came in!

Thanks very much for the advice, and the engine decoder! I will read the chassis plate off the Metro when I next go to the srappy (tomorrow (wed9/7/08) with any luck), I will post it up then.

So, the best plan at the moment sound like either....

1) 1275 engine + Metro 'box + 3.1 cwp (possibly from Mini if fitted) + 3.1 speedo drive (possibly from Mini if fitted)

or

2) 1275 engine + Mini 'box, if Mini is fitted with 3.4:1 FD then change to 3.1:1 cwp and speedo drive first.

The engine is quoted on the decoder as both 'Wide ratio rod change gearbox' and 'Std ratio rod change gearbox' which means I need to find out which of these is applicable. Looks like the Mini 'box might be looking like the brighter idea.

Thanks very much

Norbert

[Guess-Works.com]

I went back to the book (rather than relying on the database) to double check, and even there it details the specification of both wide and std ratio gearboxes.... for the E72 engine.

Way to find out is the number of groves in the gears, 2 it's wide ratio, 1 it's std.... it would also be worth looking at the tooth count on the primary and input gears ( top and bottom of the transfer gears ) as the wide ratio boxes are sometimes coupled with economy drops ( 28 teeth instead of 29 ) on the input and 30 instead of 29 on the Primary.

Additional... the 3.6 fd was a database bug, it should be 3.4 and has been amended...

Edited by GuessWorks.co.uk, 08 July 2008 - 10:00 AM.

[Norbert]

would be interesting to see the chassis plate of the metro...

Better late than never! The Metro's VIN was/is SAXXFMN01BD868573. Zeroes and letter 'D's could be swapped round though. Also on the chassis plate - Type 03109T, Paint COF, Trim LCG.

Cheers! Thanks for all your help on this matter!

Norbert

[Guess-Works.com]

and in summary

SAX - World make identifier
XF - Austin Metro
M - L
N - 3 door saloon
D - 1275cc
1 - Manual 4 spd RHD
B - 1988 Model
D - Longbridge
868573 - Serial number

[Norbert]

and in summary

SAX - World make identifier
XF - Austin Metro
M - L
N - 3 door saloon
D - 1275cc
1 - Manual 4 spd RHD
B - 1988 Model
D - Longbridge
868573 - Serial number

Excellent, thanks very much! This is good as it confirms that the 'donor' car had always been what it was badged as, it had never been changed to meet a rush order or anything, and thus gives me a good starting point re the engine.

Thanks again

James

[DUF2]

I have been searching for info on a ‘89 Metro 1275 Engine & gearbox.

does anyone know what the speedo drive ratio is?

I’m hoping it is 6/17

i have this engine fitted to my’65 Elf but the speedo is under reading by quite a bit, it is 1376 TPM. Using the Guesswork’s spreadsheet a speedo with 1248 would appear to be correct, however that is assuming theSpeedo drive ratio is 6/17. I cannot find out what ration was fitted to the Metro.

[nicklouse]

I have been searching for info on a ‘89 Metro 1275 Engine & gearbox.

does anyone know what the speedo drive ratio is?

I’m hoping it is 6/17

i have this engine fitted to my’65 Elf but the speedo is under reading by quite a bit, it is 1376 TPM. Using the Guesswork’s spreadsheet a speedo with 1248 would appear to be correct, however that is assuming theSpeedo drive ratio is 6/17. I cannot find out what ration was fitted to the Metro.

Which 1275 spec engine. There were a few.

[DUF2]

1275 A+ 1989, 12HD09…… gearbox DAM 5626 A+ 4 synchro type 3.4:1.

is this sufficient info?

[nicklouse]

1275 A+ 1989, 12HD09…… gearbox DAM 5626 A+ 4 synchro type 3.4:1.

is this sufficient info?

So MG or Vanden Plas build. Had a scan through the rover manual and it does not list the drives teeth.