10 replies to this topic

[Joloke08]

Up until now ive never felt the need to tow anything but weve been looking around a bit at caravans.
My partner passed her test before 1997 but i didnt pass mine until after

Ive read all my licence conditions but what a palarva!!!!

The dvla website says this,


Vehicles you can drive and how old you must be to drive them
The tables list the vehicle category descriptions for driving tests passed after 1 January 1997 and the minimum ages for driving them. All weights refer to maximum authorised mass (MAM) unless stated otherwise. This is the total weight of the vehicle plus the maximum load it can carry


vehicle B
Motor vehicles with a MAM not exceeding 3500kg having not more than eight passenger seats with a trailer up to 750kg. Combinations of towing vehicles in category B and a trailer, where the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen mass of the towing

What does it all mean?
Any ideas?
Were only thinking of getting a lightweight caravan,i really want to get an eriba puck shes looking at something a bit bigger but not much bigger but im not sure if i can tow a caravan at all on my licence?

Granted she can but we want to share the driving,so if anybody out there who passed after 1997 has towed a caravan we would be grateful for your advise?

it appears i can tow upto 750kg an eriba puck is under that but then it states something about the combined weight being no more than 3500kg so if for instance the car is 1800 does that mean i can tow something over 750kg so long as the combined weight isnt over 3500kg?

its soo soo confusing!!!!!
also it mentions laden weight for car but is the 750kg for trailer laden or unladen?
Any advise would be gratefully appeciated

Huggz
Jodie

[Dan]

It means exactly what it says. None of your allowances refer to the actual weight of anything, they refer to the gross weight which is the maximum weight that vehicle is plated to and is permitted to weigh with all luggage and passengers included according to the manufacturer.

You may drive a vehicle with a gross weight of up to 3500 kg.

You may drive a vehicle with up to eight seats.

You may tow a trailer with a groos weight of up to 750 kg, PROVIDED that the combined gross weights of the vehicle and the trailer added together are not more than 3500 kg. Again these are not the actual weights of the vehicles that you would see if you drove it onto a weigh bridge, they are the plated weights.

The only time that the actual weight of a vehicle comes into play is with setting the maximum weight you can tow with a particular vehicle. The trailer must not weigh more than the unladen weight (also known as the kerb weight which is the vehicle, full of fluids but no luggage and a 75 kg allowance for the driver) of the towing vehicle. There are other laws that prohibit the towed weight. An unbraked trailer may not weight more than half the unladen weight of the towing vehilce, more than that and the trailer needs brakes.

For you to tow anything that weighs more than the towing vehicle, or more than 750kg outright you would have to take a class E driving test. The combination would still not be permitted to break the 3500 kg threshold until you took a C1 + E test. If you were driving a total weight over 3500 kg then under certain circumstances you would have to have a tachometer (at the very least you would have to have one fitted even if you didn't have a disc in it).

The gross laden weight of a puck caravan is 700 kg. Essentially this is the only caravan you can tow on a post 1997 class B licence. You will need to make sure that you are towing it behind a car that weighs more than 625 kg with all standard tools, spare wheel, fuel and fluids included (allowing 75 kg for the driver that makes it 700 kg), but has a plated gross weight of less than 2800 kg. At least I think that unladen weight includes a driver allowance, kerb weight does but maybe this is different. That also relies on overrun brakes being accepted as making this a braked trailer and I'm not sure they are. You may not add anything else to the car to take it's weight up for this. If you are towing with a Mini you might have trouble scraping through this figure. The heaviest standard Minis are Sportpack cars which would easily weigh enough but most of which are prohibited from towing anyway!

Edited by Dan, 16 July 2008 - 06:17 PM.

[Joloke08]

Aww Thanks Dan
Im still a tad confussed though
The mini in question well i aint got one yet but will have in a couple of weeks will be a late automatic,i used to have one though an old clubby i miss him terribly. Im guessing there may be trouble towing with a mini auto? Unfortunately i only got a auto licence because of a disability but if i remember rightly autos weigh more because of the gearbox?

is there anywhere i can get a list of weights for the mini?

Thanks
huggz
Jodie

[Dan]

The plated weight for any vehicle made after 1979 should be on the VIN plate.

The first weight is the maximum gross laden weight.

The second weight is the maximum gross train weight (the maximum weight of the vehicle combined with a trailer according to the manufacturer, you may not be licenced to tow this much though). This is the figure that might prevent you towing a Puck, this minus the gross laden weight above must meet or exceed the gross weight of whatever you are towing.

The last two weights are maximum axle weights.

The kerb weight should be in the handbook, or in a Haynes. You could just set the car up in standard trim and get it weighed.

Minis made after 1997 may not tow, but I guess since it's an auto it isn't that new.

As for towing with an auto, technically it is easier but will cause the oil to heat up more and it would probably need cooling. I don't know how well an auto Mini would cope with towing anything as heavy as a caravan.

[lrostoke]

Somebody was asking about pucks on another forum..

According to Haynes the maximum towing weight of a saloon is 404kg

It turned out pucks weight between 330 and 410kg unladen depending on model and year, so once loaded up if that 404kg figure is correct your going to be over weight I would say.

Weights
Kerb weight:
Saloon (rubber cone suspension):
Manual transmission . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 638 kg
Automatic transmission . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 658 kg
Saloon (Hydrolastic suspension):
Manual transmission . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 679.5 kg
Automatic transmission . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 699.3 kg
Estate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 686.7 kg
Van . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 621.5 kg
Pick-up . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 622.4 kg
Maximum towing weights:
Saloon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 404 kg
Estate, Van and Pick-up . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 303 kg
Maximum towing hitch load . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 45 kg
Maximum roof rack load . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 kg

Edited by lrostoke, 16 July 2008 - 08:17 PM.

[Jordie]

You may tow a trailer with a gross weight of up to 750 kg, PROVIDED that the combined gross weights of the vehicle and the trailer added together are not more than 3500 kg. Again these are not the actual weights of the vehicles that you would see if you drove it onto a weigh bridge, they are the plated weights.

4250kg

Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes (category B) with a 750kg trailer (4.25 tonnes total MAM).

[Joloke08]

Thanks Everybody
I think we might just end up getting a kampervan instead its all too complicated

I found the table of weights really interesting i knew minis were light but there tough little cars i thought they weighed more

My daily driver is a golf and weighs nearly three times as much

Anywayz back to the drawring board me guesses

Huggz
Jodie

[Dan]

4250kg

Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes (category B) with a 750kg trailer (4.25 tonnes total MAM).

Not on a cat B licence earned after 1997. Total combination weight is limited to 3500 kg in cat B. The trailer weight comes out of your allowance rather than adding to it.

Edited by Dan, 16 July 2008 - 10:33 PM.

[Jordie]

With effect from 1 January 1997 the second EC Directive on Driving Licences (91/439/EEC) came into effect, affecting new drivers passing their test after that date and HGV drivers who obtained their licence after 31 December 1991.

The net result is that new drivers will only be allowed to drive and tow the following combinations:

* Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes (category B) with a 750kg trailer (4.25 tonnes total MAM).
* Category B vehicles with larger trailers i.e. > 750kg, provided that the combined MAM does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and the gross MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle. To be able to tow combinations outside this ruling requires the passing of an additional test.

[Dan]

Maybe I've misunderstood then. Where the caegory B description says this:

Combinations of towing vehicles in category B and a trailer, where the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3500kg

you're saying that only applies to trailers over 750 kg? So if the trailer is less than 750 kg you can drive up to a total of 4250 kg but if the trailer is over 750 kg you are limited to 3500 kg? That seems ridiculous to me, I thought that section applied to all trailers and that is how it reads in the category description.

[Jordie]

Yes thats how it works. 3500kg vehicle with a 750kg trailer is fine. MAM of 4250kgs.

Or you could have a 2000kg vehicle, towing a braked trailer of 1000kg (as this does not exceed the MAM of 3500kg or half the vehicle weight)

Daft i know