12 replies to this topic

[phil_clubman]

hey all.

as above really my sprite failed its MOT today. quite peeved off really i thort id done everything that needed doing and was proven very wrong. the car has been off the road now for about 2-3 months and was looking forward to driving to work tomorrow to stop my work "mates" mocking me and my mini. from what he was saying on the phone it sounds like theres quite a lot of work thats needed.

he said,
both upper ball joints were worn, even though they and the lower ones were replaced while its been off the road.
both track rod ends are loose. once again i replaced these and double checked the nuts on top were tights as im mega paranoid.
rear breaks and hand break doing very little. i changed and adjusted the the rear shoes to what i thought was gud, and they worked better than they did before i changed them.
fuel leek at the carb. im really worried about that as it wasnt leeking when i had it running on sunday and i have new carbs and fuel pipes.
head lamps not working properly. when i turned them on just before going to the mot they came on , both side lights and dipped and full beam, so im not sure if he means the angle they are pointing at till i go see him tomorrow.

and then which made me really annoyed he said there was no front shock absorber, which was true, but when i booked it in on friday i told them that the lower mounting bolt had snapped and needed heating up to get out they said yes they would get that out for me when i took it in and then MOT it. Both the new bolt, and shock absorber were on the front driver seat when i left it with them. and when i explained what was said when i booked it in he said he didnt no that he was suppozed to replace the shock absorber bolt.

and then he went on to say if you come in tomorrow we can give you a quote to fix everything. but i want to check everything before i take his word for it and end up paying a few hundered quid for them to fix everything.

the reason i took it to this garage was because the one i used to take my mini to went out of business. also this new one there has quite often been minis parked on the front.

one last thing, is it legal for me to drive it home so i can check everything?

cheers, phil

Edited by phil_clubman, 30 September 2008 - 01:42 AM.

[mike.]

If you checked everything and they've failed it on alot of the things you've checked then it does seem like abit of a ripoff.

The way they check ball joints is basically by levering the joint with a big breaker bar or something to check if theres any movement - When you replaced the balljoints did you adjust the shims correctly so the joint was free to move yet had no vertical movement?

Can the handbrake secure the car properly on a hill? Will it stall the car if you try and drive away with it on?

[phil_clubman]

If you checked everything and they've failed it on alot of the things you've checked then it does seem like abit of a ripoff.

The way they check ball joints is basically by levering the joint with a big breaker bar or something to check if theres any movement - When you replaced the balljoints did you adjust the shims correctly so the joint was free to move yet had no vertical movement?

Can the handbrake secure the car properly on a hill? Will it stall the car if you try and drive away with it on?

there was no vertical play in the ball joints. they were torqued up tight shimmed proper and greased well and they could move but there was quite a lot of resistance, just how id changed them in the past and theyve passed ok.
i didnt try to drive off with the handbrake on but it did stop it on a hill, my drive is quite steep ad when i put it on 3 click the car didnt move. i just dont fancy been coned out of money that i havent got really. i also dont want to get pulled over driving the car home if its not legal to do so.

cheers for your help, phil

[mike.]

Yeah sounds well dodgy to me - Did you mention that you'd recently replaced them?

I notice your in Manchester - Which garage is this?

[998dave]

jack each front corner of the car up in turn, grab the roadwheel and see if you can wobble the top and bottom in and out - will show ball joints.
track rod ends, check wheel left to right, maybe loosen of the nut, clean the thread and retorque?
there's several guides for adjusting rear brakes, loosen handbrake adjuster, adjust rear brakes at the hub until they lock, then back of unti they just start runnin freely, now readjust the handbrake so that when it's up three clicks it holds the car.

Ask them to show you where the fuel leak is, and what's wrong with the headlights, they have to tell you if they failed it, hopefully it's just a lose pipe connection, (could be missing overflow pipe?), and adjusting headlight alignment. five minutes per job.

Then maybe get them to do the shock, and re MOT, you normally have a week to resubmit the car for free retest, is that the case with this garage?

Dave

[mini_kel]

I think i would drive it home and recheck everything!

[CaraMillar]

hmm I would question the garage on some points as it seems you have pretty much done everything - thats my opinion.

[Dan]

The way they check ball joints is basically by levering the joint with a big breaker bar or something to check if theres any movement - When you replaced the balljoints did you adjust the shims correctly so the joint was free to move yet had no vertical movement?

If your station does that, complain to VOSA about them. They are only allowed to check front suspension play by shaking the suspension. A breaker bar is not part of the MOT tool kit.

Don't just assume you are being ripped off.

If this is an MOT station that went bust and has been modernised and re-opened they might now have a computerised suspension play sensor rather than doing it by hand. These are far more sensitive and will fail a car that might otherwise have passed. When you fit a new set of balljoints, if you don't lap them in then they can wear incredibly quickly. Essentially they are bedding themselves in and can need re-shimming afterwards. Doesn't always happen but it can happen, they won't continue wearing at this rate but do need re-shimming. It just means there may have been a high point on the parts that has been worn down and this can happen in just a couple of miles. That's why it's better to reshim an existing set of joints if they aren't badly worn than to fit new ones. Properly bedded joints will last a lot longer. When you re-shim them be very careful to keep ALL the components of each joint together as they are now. If you mix and match then you will be back in the same state you are now and the parts will need to bed in all over again. Each joint is now a matched set.

Did he say the track rod ends are loose or the track rods themselves are loose? In either case it's not very descriptive. The joint could be worn, or loose on the rod or loose on the hub. It could even be the steering arms that are sloppy. You need to find out how they are loose.

The shock is the garages mistake and a clerical error, if the shock failure requires a paid re-test they shouldn't charge you for it and should swallow the cost themselves.

You don't always get a free re-test, there is a big poster in the station that tells you when you are entitled to a free re-test. It depends on what's wrong.

The fuel leak is probably a loose pipe clip or a sticky needle valve. Did you use real fuel hose clips or Jubilee types? Jubilee clips don't work well on fuel hose.

It is legal to drive to a place of repair without an MOT, unless the MOT garage have condemmed your car and consider it unsafe. If they offer you the repairs at a reasonable price however there is little legal reason for taking it anywhere at all.

Edited by Dan, 30 September 2008 - 10:21 AM.

[phil_clubman]

hey all.

thanks for all your replies. ive just been to the garage a few minutes ago. he got the car on a ramp for me and explained his self. he rocked the wheels and both upper ball joints were loose and he said it was just a case of a couple of shims going in as they are new.
the track rod ends to me looked alright. they are both brand new and the tracking was done after so im still a bit unsure wether he ment the nut on the top of it.
the head lamps. one of them isnt pointing at the right angle so that needs adjusting. also one of the side lights isnt as bright as the other so he said that because they both arnt identicle he had to fail them.
as for the rear brakes he put the hand brake on and told me to try and turn the wheel, but me being a weekling could barely move it and he turned it loads so just a bit of adjustment.
ive used the clips that came with the fuel lines when i bought them. ill see if i can find i pic of the ones ive got to make sure ive got the right ones. but there was a very small bit of fuel on trhe left hand carbs float bowl.

as for the shock absorber he said he didnt want to charge me for a few hours layber to fix the shcok absorber and then MOT to find the cars completly nakerd, now he put it that way im a bit happier about that.

he is going to give me a ring today/tomorrow with a quote when the boss is in. has anyone any ideas about how many hours (roughly) this could take? or is that a bit ambitious?

cheers for everyones help.

phil

[nino87]

personally i'd take it somewhere else after checking over all the listed faults.
i used a garage for my golfs mot and they failed it on a "split" offside cv joint boot.i dont know how they look when split but this pretty much looked like it had been cut .anyway at the time i though nothing of it,it wasnt until i took the mini there aswell as the place the previous owner took it was fully booked and guess what they failed it on the same fault a "split" offside cv joint boot.im never going there again.

[phil_clubman]

these are the fuel pipes that ive used.

http://www.minispare....aspx?pid=38653

phil

[sixwheeler]

The way they check ball joints is basically by levering the joint with a big breaker bar or something to check if theres any movement - When you replaced the balljoints did you adjust the shims correctly so the joint was free to move yet had no vertical movement?

If your station does that, complain to VOSA about them. They are only allowed to check front suspension play by shaking the suspension. A breaker bar is not part of the MOT tool kit.

Incorrect, a bar is and can be used, is very much part of the tool kit and is essential for larger vehicles. Bit overkill for a mini though!

Edited by sixwheeler, 30 September 2008 - 12:03 PM.

[StaffordSi]

personally i'd take it somewhere else after checking over all the listed faults.
i used a garage for my golfs mot and they failed it on a "split" offside cv joint boot.i dont know how they look when split but this pretty much looked like it had been cut .anyway at the time i though nothing of it,it wasnt until i took the mini there aswell as the place the previous owner took it was fully booked and guess what they failed it on the same fault a "split" offside cv joint boot.im never going there again.

CV boots tend to split like that, with a clean split not an aggrevated split

The way they check ball joints is basically by levering the joint with a big breaker bar or something to check if theres any movement - When you replaced the balljoints did you adjust the shims correctly so the joint was free to move yet had no vertical movement?

If your station does that, complain to VOSA about them. They are only allowed to check front suspension play by shaking the suspension. A breaker bar is not part of the MOT tool kit.

Incorrect, a bar is and can be used, is very much part of the tool kit and is essential for larger vehicles. Bit overkill for a mini though!

+1, I don't see why people are so untrusting of MOT stations, yet will take there car to any bloke on the street to have work done on the sly.

Edited by StaffordSi, 02 October 2008 - 06:40 AM.