18 replies to this topic

[Chodosh]

Hi,

I am restoring a 1995 Cooper Spi Si and want to keep it factory spec, but for one adjustment - something that is reversible anyway, fitting 10” wheels

The car runs standard arches and I would like to keep it that way.

I have bought a lovely set of polished 10x6 super lites (the dinner plate was there to show how tiny they are when sending to a friend!) and am having the suspension and subframe restored and renewed in a few weeks before the car goes off to paint. I don’t mind if the wheels stick out, I like that look....

I am fitting new cones, hi los, bearings, track rod ends, standard bushes, 7.5 brakes, pipes etc.

Will the car be driveable on 10x6 as is? I am reluctant to fit anything but standard arches. If they rub, is it undriveable or a bit of a nuisance?

Can I chop away a little to solve that problem (before it goes to paint) and would it rub on the front or rear of the arch?

Unfortunately I can’t mock the car up as it will all come together at the wrong time and too late to make a fly edits.

Thanks all...

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Edited by Chodosh, 23 January 2019 - 11:40 AM.

[imack]

6x10's will generally foul the front panel and wing on turns but it all depends on wheel offset, ride height, castor angle, brake and drive flange setup. If you go and add wheel spacers it'll be even worse.
You've really got to mock it up. You've generally got to cut away the front panel and wing. You may even get tyres fouling the rear of the inner arches on full lock, especially if you're racks not fully centralised.

[SuperDeLuxeNick]

depends on offset of wheel mostly and as above...

 

I ran -7 offset 10x6 and had loads of clearance (lowered car and on drums front and rear)

 

You should get a nice bit of poke out the arches for sure (you can calculate this exactly by checking the offset of your old and new wheels, brakes etc and measure them out, but tricky to know if you'll get body rub without fitting.

[Cooperman]

You should be ok so long as the datum offset is the same as standard wheels.
The tyres will probably scrape on the front edge of the front wings, but you can slightly ŕe-shape the front of the wings.
The other things to do are to fit adjustable tie bars and move the wheels back slightly and raise the right height about 2cm all round.
The wheels look fantastic.

[luismx123]

Also swapped to 10x5.5 JBW W8s. They fouled the front wing and I had to chop about 2cm off. It hurt me to do it, but once done I felt better. Should be fine with the arches I guess.... But I threw some group 2 race on to keep the wide look.

[DeadSquare]

Putting such wide rims on a tiny wheel, moves the castor contact point, which is not much of a problem in a straight line, but the more lock that is taken, the less well the tyre transmits the road feel.

 

Back in the days of narrow 'crossply tyres', I sliced quite a lot of the outer side of standard Mini wheels for people, and inserted a steel band to make a 5 J. rim.

 

They made a big improvement in the handling, and they didn't rub the body, front or back, but that was because the tread was narrow.

 

However, I made some S rims into 6" for a rallying friend to use on special stages, and although his car was raised, he had to beat the rear arches out so that the tyres didn't rub.  As far as I remember, they were OK on the front, because besides being raised, he had massive negative camber.

 

As @ imack  points out, a lot depends on the wheel's offset, but it is a fair assumption, that someone wouldn't have made them if they were going to rub.

[Chodosh]

Also swapped to 10x5.5 JBW W8s. They fouled the front wing and I had to chop about 2cm off. It hurt me to do it, but once done I felt better. Should be fine with the arches I guess.... But I threw some group 2 race on to keep the wide look.

Also swapped to 10x5.5 JBW W8s. They fouled the front wing and I had to chop about 2cm off. It hurt me to do it, but once done I felt better. Should be fine with the arches I guess.... But I threw some group 2 race on to keep the wide look.

Thanks all for the feedback. When you say you had to chop off 2cm... what part of the wing did you have to chop? 2cm off of the corner or 2cm radius off the entire opening?

Cheers

[Chodosh]

You should be ok so long as the datum offset is the same as standard wheels.
The tyres will probably scrape on the front edge of the front wings, but you can slightly ŕe-shape the front of the wings.
The other things to do are to fit adjustable tie bars and move the wheels back slightly and raise the right height about 2cm all round.
The wheels look fantastic.

I saw them and had to have them!

Also led to understand that aside from the point made by DeadSquare, the car will be softer over the bumps and be more compliant on smaller wheels.

[Cooperman]

There is no doubt that 10" wheels give the best ride and 'feel', but that might be expected as it was designed that way.
To get the best it is advisable to have the front sub-frame solidly mounted as well.

[DeadSquare]

I also agree that those rims look fantastic, in fact too fantastic to actually use.

 

I think that to keep them like that, you should just use them for Concourse d'elegance   ...   and then you won't have to worry about them rubbing on full lock.

[Chodosh]

There is no doubt that 10" wheels give the best ride and 'feel', but that might be expected as it was designed that way.
To get the best it is advisable to have the front sub-frame solidly mounted as well.

Is that why people suggest adding further engine mounts, to increase rigidity? I have bought a water pump
Mounted ultimate engine asteady which I intend to fit amongst other things.

Shock wise, the car came with koni’s from John cooper and although there may be life left in them (45,000 miles), I will likely replace them. Question is, do I go for the same or will the silver adjust a ride shocks give noticeable improvements. I think Koni are more money, but it’s what the car came with...

Negative camber bottom arms... are they necessary and will 1.5 degrees help with clearance or make it worse?

Thanks for everyone’s input!

[Cooperman]

The first and most important thing is to solid mount the front sub-frame. Not those useless poly-mounts, but the solid ones at all sub-frame fixing points.
For dampers I like either GAZ or SPAX adjustables. Never been a fan of Konis.
For the road you don't need neg camber lower arms and the camber can be set by using offset lower arm bushes.
Hi-lo's will allow you to raise the ride height a bit to get slightly more tyre clearance to the front wings.
That ultimate engine is excellent and sufficient.
Then make sure the rear wheels have 1/8" to 3/16" toe-in and zero to -0.5 degrees camber (i.e. a very slight negative camber).

[DeadSquare]

The first and most important thing is to solid mount the front sub-frame. Not those useless poly-mounts, but the solid ones at all sub-frame fixing points.
For dampers I like either GAZ or SPAX adjustables. Never been a fan of Konis.
For the road you don't need neg camber lower arms and the camber can be set by using offset lower arm bushes.
Hi-lo's will allow you to raise the ride height a bit to get slightly more tyre clearance to the front wings.
That ultimate engine is excellent and sufficient.
Then make sure the rear wheels have 1/8" to 3/16" toe-in and zero to -0.5 degrees camber (i.e. a very slight negative camber).

 

Wouldn't a good dose of negative camber help to offset / counteract / remedy those very wide rims?

[Cooperman]

No, I don't think it would be any advantage. The widhh of the wheels is not such an issue because the max tyre width on a 10" is a 165 section. Mor neg can help wihh a narrower wheel to keep the tread more neutral when cornering hard on tarmac.
About 0.75 degs neg would work well and that can be achieved using offset bushes.

[luismx123]

 

Also swapped to 10x5.5 JBW W8s. They fouled the front wing and I had to chop about 2cm off. It hurt me to do it, but once done I felt better. Should be fine with the arches I guess.... But I threw some group 2 race on to keep the wide look.

Also swapped to 10x5.5 JBW W8s. They fouled the front wing and I had to chop about 2cm off. It hurt me to do it, but once done I felt better. Should be fine with the arches I guess.... But I threw some group 2 race on to keep the wide look.

Thanks all for the feedback. When you say you had to chop off 2cm... what part of the wing did you have to chop? 2cm off of the corner or 2cm radius off the entire opening?

Cheers

 

Let me try to explain this in text :)
So I had to remove some metal from the front lip. 
I started from the apex of the arch (top middle) and stretched a tangential curve towards the front, removing 2cm off the front. So basically a tappered shape going from thick-thin, front to back.
AHHH FORGET IT ill make a paint pic. BRB!

 

There we go...
Hope this helps :)

P.S I had to remove the material there because the wheel was catching when I turned fully. Otherwise it would have been fine. 
and regarding camber etc. I think I have -1.5* Camber set at straight. Cant remember what its at when at full lock.

Attached Files

•  cut.jpg   75.96K   3 downloads

Edited by luismx123, 24 January 2019 - 07:43 AM.