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Removing Coil Springs From The Front Suspension

suspension

Best Answer nicklouse , 04 August 2019 - 12:38 AM

You're probably best just removing the upper arm if the spring's loose with the Hi-lo at it's shortest. 
 
Are you keeping the springs or changing back to rubber cones?

Thanks for the reply. I'll read up on that process. I'm planning on staying with new springs along with a new set of shocks. The weather conditions here are very tough on rubber. I don't want to repeat the job any sooner than necessary. 
 

I had Japanese Mini Delta Springs with the Mini Delta Hi-Lo
 
I used the normal Spring Compressor Tool.  I also replaced them with Red-Spot Rubber Suspension and oh boy was I glad that I did!
 
That being said the springs on my Mini were fine as long as the roads were very smooth, if they became slightly rough and undulating the springs were horrible.

Thanks also for the reply. Were you able to get the compression tool on both sides? It looks like it would be tough to get the tool on the passenger cabin side of the spring. The roads here are pretty good and I haven't noticed any serious issues (other than the age and quality of the old worn suspension).
Yes I had no problem with the compression tool on both sides.
 
The main problem I had with springs is that our roads tend to be a tad bumpy.  The springs would run out of suspension travel and coil bind whereas the Rubber suspension is progressive and wouldn't.  The springs were fine when the roads were nice and smooth, as soon as they weren't the Rubber suspension would win hands down.
 
Can I ask what springs are you going to replace them with.
 
Good to know about the compression tool. I may go ahead and remove the upper arm to rebuild it. It looks to be original so it wouldn't hurt it to update the components.
 
Also good to know. We may end up moving back east in a few years. If so, the roads are much different and I may need to re-evaluate the ride quality. Also the temperatures in the east are much more reasonable and there is actual humidity in the air. The normal temps here in the summer are well over 100F and the humidity levels are typically in the 10-20% range. Neither is particularly good for the rubber cones.
 
I lucked up on a good deal with new 7ent springs. I've done a test fit on the rear and they fit much better than the previous set. I'm going to go ahead and replace the front bump stop while I've got it apart. That should allow me to evaluate if there is any new contact with the arm. 
 

There are different opinions on coil springs vs rubber cones.  Just be aware of the potential problems coil springs can cause in a Mini.
 
See this thread:  http://www.theminifo...specifications/

I appreciate your help. The link you included was one of many that I read through while reaching a decision (and it hasn't been an easy one).
 
The factors I considered included the type of driving I plan to do with the Mini, the local road conditions, the potential that modifications would be needed to the HiLo, and the longevity of the cone vs spring. I'm looking for a smooth ride under quick conditions at most. I've got a JCW F56 that's set up for track days/fast road conditions so the Classic doesn't have to fill that role. Mostly it will be driven around town with some fun cruises down curvy roads. The tarmac here is a combination of asphalt and concrete and is generally very smooth and polished. I'm switching wheels & tires from 145/70 R12 to 165/70 R10 so the potential for the HiLo needing modification was a consideration also.
 
Again, I really appreciate everyone's help! Joining this forum has helped me immensely as far as knowledge but hasn't helped my bank account at all. Of course, just buying a Mini may have had an effect on that part.  :D

Sounds like you need rubber in there not springs.
 
It may end up being a choice I regret, but just having the old springs out will be an improvement. If nothing else, I will know how to take apart the suspension to install the cones  :proud:

The problem with springs is they are linear in rate. The rubber and cone gives a rising rate. So you have small bump compliance and as the suspension moves the spring assy gets stronger. The coil spring in the same space can do neither as it has to be stiff to give you the same rate as you need at suspension bump. Which leaves you with a car with very poor small bump compliance. Or if the spring is soft enough to give small bump compliance you have a car that wallows into corners. The rubber replacement springs have nothing going right for them. The coil over kits are just as bad. Look at any race Mini that has coil overs and see where the top mount is. Way inboard of the existing mount. Why? So as to have the spring compressing linearly at the end of its travel. As the suspension moves through an arc you have some interesting effects on the spring when the load is vertical. Moving the top pick up point results in a rising rate spring which is what all (most) need in their suspension. The kits out there result in giving you a failing rate spring.

MokeSpider on here went to a spring designer wanting to replace the spring medium. When the designer comes back and says (I use the words in my head as I forgot what he posted) “ Have you thought about using rubber as I can’t get the results from a coil!” That tells you something.

Me? I have coils on my race Mini. I remember when they were developing the spring kits soon worked out they were crap and made my own set up. Next Mini on the road will be on rubber. Go to the full post


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#1 CKWilliams

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 06:31 PM

Hello, I apologize for what will likely become a rambling post from a newbie to Mini engineering.

 

I've recently obtained a 1991 Mini (1275/carb) that was originally sold in the Japanese market. It has since been imported into the United States and now lives in Las Vegas.

 

The previous owner had a set of Mini Sport Adjustarides with Hi-los and coils springs installed instead of cones. I'm working on replacing the worn out suspension parts and am trying to figure out a way to remove the front springs. The springs are moveable in their position with the Hi-los loosened but there isn't enough clearance to remove the knuckle. Will the upper arm need to be removed in order to remove the springs or is there a spring compression tool that would fit in the limited space?

 

Thank you in advance for any advice you have.

Charles



#2 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 06:44 PM

You're probably best just removing the upper arm if the spring's loose with the Hi-lo at it's shortest. 

 

Are you keeping the springs or changing back to rubber cones?



#3 Orange-Phantom

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 08:30 PM

I had Japanese Mini Delta Springs with the Mini Delta Hi-Lo

 

I used the normal Spring Compressor Tool.  I also replaced them with Red-Spot Rubber Suspension and oh boy was I glad that I did!

 

That being said the springs on my Mini were fine as long as the roads were very smooth, if they became slightly rough and undulating the springs were horrible.



#4 Cooperman

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 08:57 PM

You will be delighted once those stupid coil springs are in the dumpster and proper rubber cone springs are fitted!



#5 CKWilliams

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 08:57 PM

You're probably best just removing the upper arm if the spring's loose with the Hi-lo at it's shortest. 

 

Are you keeping the springs or changing back to rubber cones?

Thanks for the reply. I'll read up on that process. I'm planning on staying with new springs along with a new set of shocks. The weather conditions here are very tough on rubber. I don't want to repeat the job any sooner than necessary. 

 

I had Japanese Mini Delta Springs with the Mini Delta Hi-Lo

 

I used the normal Spring Compressor Tool.  I also replaced them with Red-Spot Rubber Suspension and oh boy was I glad that I did!

 

That being said the springs on my Mini were fine as long as the roads were very smooth, if they became slightly rough and undulating the springs were horrible.

Thanks also for the reply. Were you able to get the compression tool on both sides? It looks like it would be tough to get the tool on the passenger cabin side of the spring. The roads here are pretty good and I haven't noticed any serious issues (other than the age and quality of the old worn suspension).



#6 CKWilliams

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 09:02 PM

You will be delighted once those stupid coil springs are in the dumpster and proper rubber cone springs are fitted!

Thanks also. I'm going to give the new springs a chance. The current setup is pretty well shot. The springs don't really fit in the trumpets and the shocks are a mismatched set. Correcting these issues along with a proper corner balancing should bring out the life in the suspension.



#7 unburntfuelinthemorning

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 10:14 PM

There are different opinions on coil springs vs rubber cones.  Just be aware of the potential problems coil springs can cause in a Mini.

 

See this thread:  http://www.theminifo...specifications/



#8 CKWilliams

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Posted 03 August 2019 - 12:06 AM

There are different opinions on coil springs vs rubber cones.  Just be aware of the potential problems coil springs can cause in a Mini.

 

See this thread:  http://www.theminifo...specifications/

I appreciate your help. The link you included was one of many that I read through while reaching a decision (and it hasn't been an easy one).

 

The factors I considered included the type of driving I plan to do with the Mini, the local road conditions, the potential that modifications would be needed to the HiLo, and the longevity of the cone vs spring. I'm looking for a smooth ride under quick conditions at most. I've got a JCW F56 that's set up for track days/fast road conditions so the Classic doesn't have to fill that role. Mostly it will be driven around town with some fun cruises down curvy roads. The tarmac here is a combination of asphalt and concrete and is generally very smooth and polished. I'm switching wheels & tires from 145/70 R12 to 165/70 R10 so the potential for the HiLo needing modification was a consideration also.

 

Again, I really appreciate everyone's help! Joining this forum has helped me immensely as far as knowledge but hasn't helped my bank account at all. Of course, just buying a Mini may have had an effect on that part.  :D



#9 DeadSquare

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Posted 03 August 2019 - 07:06 AM

"...........this forum..............hasn't helped my bank account at all......"

 

We used to have a Yacht Chandlers, and inside above the door, easily noticed as customers left, was a very nice painting of a modest boat.

 

The sub scription was " A boat is the hole in the water, into which you pour money" .



#10 Orange-Phantom

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Posted 03 August 2019 - 03:11 PM

 

You're probably best just removing the upper arm if the spring's loose with the Hi-lo at it's shortest. 

 

Are you keeping the springs or changing back to rubber cones?

Thanks for the reply. I'll read up on that process. I'm planning on staying with new springs along with a new set of shocks. The weather conditions here are very tough on rubber. I don't want to repeat the job any sooner than necessary. 

 

I had Japanese Mini Delta Springs with the Mini Delta Hi-Lo

 

I used the normal Spring Compressor Tool.  I also replaced them with Red-Spot Rubber Suspension and oh boy was I glad that I did!

 

That being said the springs on my Mini were fine as long as the roads were very smooth, if they became slightly rough and undulating the springs were horrible.

Thanks also for the reply. Were you able to get the compression tool on both sides? It looks like it would be tough to get the tool on the passenger cabin side of the spring. The roads here are pretty good and I haven't noticed any serious issues (other than the age and quality of the old worn suspension).

 

Yes I had no problem with the compression tool on both sides.

 

The main problem I had with springs is that our roads tend to be a tad bumpy.  The springs would run out of suspension travel and coil bind whereas the Rubber suspension is progressive and wouldn't.  The springs were fine when the roads were nice and smooth, as soon as they weren't the Rubber suspension would win hands down.

 

Can I ask what springs are you going to replace them with.



#11 nicklouse

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Posted 03 August 2019 - 08:25 PM

There are different opinions on coil springs vs rubber cones.  Just be aware of the potential problems coil springs can cause in a Mini.
 
See this thread:  http://www.theminifo...specifications/

I appreciate your help. The link you included was one of many that I read through while reaching a decision (and it hasn't been an easy one).
 
The factors I considered included the type of driving I plan to do with the Mini, the local road conditions, the potential that modifications would be needed to the HiLo, and the longevity of the cone vs spring. I'm looking for a smooth ride under quick conditions at most. I've got a JCW F56 that's set up for track days/fast road conditions so the Classic doesn't have to fill that role. Mostly it will be driven around town with some fun cruises down curvy roads. The tarmac here is a combination of asphalt and concrete and is generally very smooth and polished. I'm switching wheels & tires from 145/70 R12 to 165/70 R10 so the potential for the HiLo needing modification was a consideration also.
 
Again, I really appreciate everyone's help! Joining this forum has helped me immensely as far as knowledge but hasn't helped my bank account at all. Of course, just buying a Mini may have had an effect on that part.  :D

Sounds like you need rubber in there not springs.

#12 CKWilliams

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Posted 03 August 2019 - 11:35 PM

 

 

You're probably best just removing the upper arm if the spring's loose with the Hi-lo at it's shortest. 

 

Are you keeping the springs or changing back to rubber cones?

Thanks for the reply. I'll read up on that process. I'm planning on staying with new springs along with a new set of shocks. The weather conditions here are very tough on rubber. I don't want to repeat the job any sooner than necessary. 

 

I had Japanese Mini Delta Springs with the Mini Delta Hi-Lo

 

I used the normal Spring Compressor Tool.  I also replaced them with Red-Spot Rubber Suspension and oh boy was I glad that I did!

 

That being said the springs on my Mini were fine as long as the roads were very smooth, if they became slightly rough and undulating the springs were horrible.

Thanks also for the reply. Were you able to get the compression tool on both sides? It looks like it would be tough to get the tool on the passenger cabin side of the spring. The roads here are pretty good and I haven't noticed any serious issues (other than the age and quality of the old worn suspension).

 

Yes I had no problem with the compression tool on both sides.

 

The main problem I had with springs is that our roads tend to be a tad bumpy.  The springs would run out of suspension travel and coil bind whereas the Rubber suspension is progressive and wouldn't.  The springs were fine when the roads were nice and smooth, as soon as they weren't the Rubber suspension would win hands down.

 

Can I ask what springs are you going to replace them with.

 

 

Good to know about the compression tool. I may go ahead and remove the upper arm to rebuild it. It looks to be original so it wouldn't hurt it to update the components.

 

Also good to know. We may end up moving back east in a few years. If so, the roads are much different and I may need to re-evaluate the ride quality. Also the temperatures in the east are much more reasonable and there is actual humidity in the air. The normal temps here in the summer are well over 100F and the humidity levels are typically in the 10-20% range. Neither is particularly good for the rubber cones.

 

I lucked up on a good deal with new 7ent springs. I've done a test fit on the rear and they fit much better than the previous set. I'm going to go ahead and replace the front bump stop while I've got it apart. That should allow me to evaluate if there is any new contact with the arm. 

 

 

 

There are different opinions on coil springs vs rubber cones.  Just be aware of the potential problems coil springs can cause in a Mini.
 
See this thread:  http://www.theminifo...specifications/

I appreciate your help. The link you included was one of many that I read through while reaching a decision (and it hasn't been an easy one).
 
The factors I considered included the type of driving I plan to do with the Mini, the local road conditions, the potential that modifications would be needed to the HiLo, and the longevity of the cone vs spring. I'm looking for a smooth ride under quick conditions at most. I've got a JCW F56 that's set up for track days/fast road conditions so the Classic doesn't have to fill that role. Mostly it will be driven around town with some fun cruises down curvy roads. The tarmac here is a combination of asphalt and concrete and is generally very smooth and polished. I'm switching wheels & tires from 145/70 R12 to 165/70 R10 so the potential for the HiLo needing modification was a consideration also.
 
Again, I really appreciate everyone's help! Joining this forum has helped me immensely as far as knowledge but hasn't helped my bank account at all. Of course, just buying a Mini may have had an effect on that part.  :D

Sounds like you need rubber in there not springs.

 

 

It may end up being a choice I regret, but just having the old springs out will be an improvement. If nothing else, I will know how to take apart the suspension to install the cones  :proud:



#13 Magneto

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 12:12 AM

You'll get a lot of negativism on coil springs on this forum, and there is plenty of evidence to support their point of view, there also is a lot of "keep it original" sentiment here.....

 

I ran coil springs on my Clubman Estate for 20K, the new owner has done at least that many miles all with no issues whatsoever. We did a run to the Texas hill country where there were plenty of really rough roads too....so, take that for what it's worth....

 

You will need to remove the upper control arm to get the old springs out and the new ones in both, so go ahead and do it. While you're in there you'll probably find the needle bearings and shaft well worn, so plan for that too. If your car doesn't already have them you might consider a good set of adjustale lower control arms and tie bars so you can fine tune the alignment. I prefer the ones from MiniSport myself.....You might also look into our US forum - RestorationMini dot com, we are classics based, lots of knowledgable guys there and no egos in the way of helping a new guy......

 

If you join up, I'm MiniDave on there


Edited by Magneto, 04 August 2019 - 12:12 AM.


#14 nicklouse

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 12:38 AM   Best Answer

You're probably best just removing the upper arm if the spring's loose with the Hi-lo at it's shortest. 
 
Are you keeping the springs or changing back to rubber cones?

Thanks for the reply. I'll read up on that process. I'm planning on staying with new springs along with a new set of shocks. The weather conditions here are very tough on rubber. I don't want to repeat the job any sooner than necessary. 
 

I had Japanese Mini Delta Springs with the Mini Delta Hi-Lo
 
I used the normal Spring Compressor Tool.  I also replaced them with Red-Spot Rubber Suspension and oh boy was I glad that I did!
 
That being said the springs on my Mini were fine as long as the roads were very smooth, if they became slightly rough and undulating the springs were horrible.

Thanks also for the reply. Were you able to get the compression tool on both sides? It looks like it would be tough to get the tool on the passenger cabin side of the spring. The roads here are pretty good and I haven't noticed any serious issues (other than the age and quality of the old worn suspension).
Yes I had no problem with the compression tool on both sides.
 
The main problem I had with springs is that our roads tend to be a tad bumpy.  The springs would run out of suspension travel and coil bind whereas the Rubber suspension is progressive and wouldn't.  The springs were fine when the roads were nice and smooth, as soon as they weren't the Rubber suspension would win hands down.
 
Can I ask what springs are you going to replace them with.
 
Good to know about the compression tool. I may go ahead and remove the upper arm to rebuild it. It looks to be original so it wouldn't hurt it to update the components.
 
Also good to know. We may end up moving back east in a few years. If so, the roads are much different and I may need to re-evaluate the ride quality. Also the temperatures in the east are much more reasonable and there is actual humidity in the air. The normal temps here in the summer are well over 100F and the humidity levels are typically in the 10-20% range. Neither is particularly good for the rubber cones.
 
I lucked up on a good deal with new 7ent springs. I've done a test fit on the rear and they fit much better than the previous set. I'm going to go ahead and replace the front bump stop while I've got it apart. That should allow me to evaluate if there is any new contact with the arm. 
 

There are different opinions on coil springs vs rubber cones.  Just be aware of the potential problems coil springs can cause in a Mini.
 
See this thread:  http://www.theminifo...specifications/

I appreciate your help. The link you included was one of many that I read through while reaching a decision (and it hasn't been an easy one).
 
The factors I considered included the type of driving I plan to do with the Mini, the local road conditions, the potential that modifications would be needed to the HiLo, and the longevity of the cone vs spring. I'm looking for a smooth ride under quick conditions at most. I've got a JCW F56 that's set up for track days/fast road conditions so the Classic doesn't have to fill that role. Mostly it will be driven around town with some fun cruises down curvy roads. The tarmac here is a combination of asphalt and concrete and is generally very smooth and polished. I'm switching wheels & tires from 145/70 R12 to 165/70 R10 so the potential for the HiLo needing modification was a consideration also.
 
Again, I really appreciate everyone's help! Joining this forum has helped me immensely as far as knowledge but hasn't helped my bank account at all. Of course, just buying a Mini may have had an effect on that part.  :D

Sounds like you need rubber in there not springs.
 
It may end up being a choice I regret, but just having the old springs out will be an improvement. If nothing else, I will know how to take apart the suspension to install the cones  :proud:

The problem with springs is they are linear in rate. The rubber and cone gives a rising rate. So you have small bump compliance and as the suspension moves the spring assy gets stronger. The coil spring in the same space can do neither as it has to be stiff to give you the same rate as you need at suspension bump. Which leaves you with a car with very poor small bump compliance. Or if the spring is soft enough to give small bump compliance you have a car that wallows into corners. The rubber replacement springs have nothing going right for them. The coil over kits are just as bad. Look at any race Mini that has coil overs and see where the top mount is. Way inboard of the existing mount. Why? So as to have the spring compressing linearly at the end of its travel. As the suspension moves through an arc you have some interesting effects on the spring when the load is vertical. Moving the top pick up point results in a rising rate spring which is what all (most) need in their suspension. The kits out there result in giving you a failing rate spring.

MokeSpider on here went to a spring designer wanting to replace the spring medium. When the designer comes back and says (I use the words in my head as I forgot what he posted) “ Have you thought about using rubber as I can’t get the results from a coil!” That tells you something.

Me? I have coils on my race Mini. I remember when they were developing the spring kits soon worked out they were crap and made my own set up. Next Mini on the road will be on rubber.

#15 DeadSquare

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 06:44 AM

 

 

 

 

You're probably best just removing the upper arm if the spring's loose with the Hi-lo at it's shortest. 
 
Are you keeping the springs or changing back to rubber cones?

Thanks for the reply. I'll read up on that process. I'm planning on staying with new springs along with a new set of shocks. The weather conditions here are very tough on rubber. I don't want to repeat the job any sooner than necessary. 
 

I had Japanese Mini Delta Springs with the Mini Delta Hi-Lo
 
I used the normal Spring Compressor Tool.  I also replaced them with Red-Spot Rubber Suspension and oh boy was I glad that I did!
 
That being said the springs on my Mini were fine as long as the roads were very smooth, if they became slightly rough and undulating the springs were horrible.

Thanks also for the reply. Were you able to get the compression tool on both sides? It looks like it would be tough to get the tool on the passenger cabin side of the spring. The roads here are pretty good and I haven't noticed any serious issues (other than the age and quality of the old worn suspension).
Yes I had no problem with the compression tool on both sides.
 
The main problem I had with springs is that our roads tend to be a tad bumpy.  The springs would run out of suspension travel and coil bind whereas the Rubber suspension is progressive and wouldn't.  The springs were fine when the roads were nice and smooth, as soon as they weren't the Rubber suspension would win hands down.
 
Can I ask what springs are you going to replace them with.
 
Good to know about the compression tool. I may go ahead and remove the upper arm to rebuild it. It looks to be original so it wouldn't hurt it to update the components.
 
Also good to know. We may end up moving back east in a few years. If so, the roads are much different and I may need to re-evaluate the ride quality. Also the temperatures in the east are much more reasonable and there is actual humidity in the air. The normal temps here in the summer are well over 100F and the humidity levels are typically in the 10-20% range. Neither is particularly good for the rubber cones.
 
I lucked up on a good deal with new 7ent springs. I've done a test fit on the rear and they fit much better than the previous set. I'm going to go ahead and replace the front bump stop while I've got it apart. That should allow me to evaluate if there is any new contact with the arm. 
 

 

 

There are different opinions on coil springs vs rubber cones.  Just be aware of the potential problems coil springs can cause in a Mini.
 
See this thread:  http://www.theminifo...specifications/

I appreciate your help. The link you included was one of many that I read through while reaching a decision (and it hasn't been an easy one).
 
The factors I considered included the type of driving I plan to do with the Mini, the local road conditions, the potential that modifications would be needed to the HiLo, and the longevity of the cone vs spring. I'm looking for a smooth ride under quick conditions at most. I've got a JCW F56 that's set up for track days/fast road conditions so the Classic doesn't have to fill that role. Mostly it will be driven around town with some fun cruises down curvy roads. The tarmac here is a combination of asphalt and concrete and is generally very smooth and polished. I'm switching wheels & tires from 145/70 R12 to 165/70 R10 so the potential for the HiLo needing modification was a consideration also.
 
Again, I really appreciate everyone's help! Joining this forum has helped me immensely as far as knowledge but hasn't helped my bank account at all. Of course, just buying a Mini may have had an effect on that part.  :D

Sounds like you need rubber in there not springs.
 
It may end up being a choice I regret, but just having the old springs out will be an improvement. If nothing else, I will know how to take apart the suspension to install the cones  :proud:

The problem with springs is they are linear in rate. The rubber and cone gives a rising rate. So you have small bump compliance and as the suspension moves the spring assy gets stronger. The coil spring in the same space can do neither as it has to be stiff to give you the same rate as you need at suspension bump. Which leaves you with a car with very poor small bump compliance. Or if the spring is soft enough to give small bump compliance you have a car that wallows into corners. The rubber replacement springs have nothing going right for them. The coil over kits are just as bad. Look at any race Mini that has coil overs and see where the top mount is. Way inboard of the existing mount. Why? So as to have the spring compressing linearly at the end of its travel. As the suspension moves through an arc you have some interesting effects on the spring when the load is vertical. Moving the top pick up point results in a rising rate spring which is what all (most) need in their suspension. The kits out there result in giving you a failing rate spring.

MokeSpider on here went to a spring designer wanting to replace the spring medium. When the designer comes back and says (I use the words in my head as I forgot what he posted) “ Have you thought about using rubber as I can’t get the results from a coil!” That tells you something.

Me? I have coils on my race Mini. I remember when they were developing the spring kits soon worked out they were crap and made my own set up. Next Mini on the road will be on rubber.

 

 

Read up on "Aeon Spring Assisters" for introducing 'rising rate' in a coil spring.







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