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Can Someone Eli5 Why There Isnt A Metro Ball Joint Adaptor/dropper?


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#1 Magic jason

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Posted 01 January 2020 - 05:53 PM

So i don't really understand why you cant just machine a dropper like below, but instead of it being Female to Male, machine it so its Female to Female to take a Metro ball joint instead of a Mini ball joint. 

 

Excuse the editing, but cant we just take these two below..

FOR137__52971.jpg

 

Alloy_Hub_ball_joint_extender_480x480.jp

 

and sort of just put them together like so..

 

cfdd401528b4b20ec2191a431cfd8143.jpg

 

 

I know the thread on the Metro ball joint is wider than the thread on the Mini hub, and in practice such an adapater wouldnt be useful to anyone running a sensible ride height. Just wandering why its not been done, or if it has what was the flaw?

 

 



#2 nicklouse

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Posted 01 January 2020 - 07:08 PM

But why? 
 

if you really want to run the Metro Ball joints spend the money on the KAD hubs and keep the geometry correct.



#3 Magic jason

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Posted 01 January 2020 - 08:19 PM

But why? 
 

if you really want to run the Metro Ball joints spend the money on the KAD hubs and keep the geometry correct.

 

Why is what im wandering.

 

Im not questioning the effects of using droppers and/or how they effect the geometry/handling, simply asking those who may know why there is no such item.

 

Seven Mini parts used to supply droppers. and a pair from Owens for example for Mini hubs are shy of £100,  and they do exactly that, just lower the standard Mini ball joints.

 

Thats why im after someone to give some mechanical knowlage or somewhat as to why no ones made/marketed a pair to accept Metro ball joints instead. It seems more logical to me that if you were to use droppers of any kind then why not also use them as a means to change to a Metro ball joint. 



#4 Ethel

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Posted 01 January 2020 - 10:44 PM

The Metro joint is entirely self contained, the Mini's is part way in to the hub - looking at the actual axis of rotation. Of course the Metty joint screws inside the Metty hub,  but it can't do that on a Mini.

 

Perhaps a Metro ball adaptor would just lower the swivel axis too far? For simple practicality would you want to create a need for different joints top and bottom when the sort of car that is going to use 'em won't have to go anywhere near the 12k mileage between services that was the main reason  for swapping to sealed joints?



#5 nicklouse

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Posted 01 January 2020 - 11:21 PM

Also worth noting that the metro ball joints do not have as much articulation as the Mini ones so you may have issues.



#6 nicklouse

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Posted 01 January 2020 - 11:22 PM

 

But why? 
 

if you really want to run the Metro Ball joints spend the money on the KAD hubs and keep the geometry correct.

 

Why is what im wandering.

 

Im not questioning the effects of using droppers and/or how they effect the geometry/handling, simply asking those who may know why there is no such item.

 

Seven Mini parts used to supply droppers. and a pair from Owens for example for Mini hubs are shy of £100,  and they do exactly that, just lower the standard Mini ball joints.

 

Thats why im after someone to give some mechanical knowlage or somewhat as to why no ones made/marketed a pair to accept Metro ball joints instead. It seems more logical to me that if you were to use droppers of any kind then why not also use them as a means to change to a Metro ball joint. 

 

See my comment above. Also some companies do do the spacers with built in ball joints. 



#7 Magic jason

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 12:16 AM

See my comment above. Also some companies do do the spacers with built in ball joints. 

 

 

 

It was the 'Fletcher roll center adjusters' that got me thinking on this to begin with. I believe they are also sealed units, though theres not exactly a cross section of them to see whats going on inside, But if they can produce those, surely they could just produce a sealed unit exactly the same, just shorter.

 

Intresting to know they dont have as much articulation, could see that as being a drawback and possible reason. The type of answer i was looking for, cheers.



#8 Magic jason

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 12:54 AM

The Metro joint is entirely self contained, the Mini's is part way in to the hub - looking at the actual axis of rotation. Of course the Metty joint screws inside the Metty hub,  but it can't do that on a Mini.

 

Perhaps a Metro ball adaptor would just lower the swivel axis too far? For simple practicality would you want to create a need for different joints top and bottom when the sort of car that is going to use 'em won't have to go anywhere near the 12k mileage between services that was the main reason  for swapping to sealed joints?

 

It could be possible that the adaptor would have to be longer than just a dropper, and clearly research has gone into Owen's droppers. So theres potential they would be too long and thus useless. 

 

I would have thought the practicality of machining them would be slightly easier if anything, being Female to Female it would just be a straight threaded union, which presumably would be done on a lathe so no need to change any tooling as such to cut the different threads. 

 

Sealed units are a lot easier to fit/replace than the current shim and grease units that the Mini uses. Now days I dont believe the service interval is what matters, the problem arises when replacing the mini ball joints its extremely easy to shim them incorrectly, leading to potential early failures. Which brings me back to why theres no dropper/adaptor that unites both the Mini hub, and the Metro ball joints.

 

Maybe it is just a case of lengths and angles that just dont work together.



#9 Moke Spider

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Posted 02 January 2020 - 05:47 PM

I don't see an issue with your proposal.

 

I would say, the only reason these aren't available off the shelf is a case of supply and demand, though, I have a recollection of seeing just what it is you are after, though I could be wrong and no, I can't recall where I saw them !

 

If you are going over to Metro Joints, just a word of caution here - on a stock set up, the joint needs to be able to move through 550 so they don't bind at the ends of it's movement. I haven't checked how much movement is needed when using these droppers.

 

On checking many Metro Ball Joints, not all will move through 550, some are less. I know the Delphi ones are OK in this regards.



#10 bikewiz

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 03:59 AM

If I'm understanding you correctly, this is what you need if you want sealed ball joints on a stock mini hub while maintaining stock geometry.

http://classicminisj...ball-joint-kit/

Very nicely made but not cheap.....



#11 DeadSquare

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 10:43 AM

If I'm understanding you correctly, this is what you need if you want sealed ball joints on a stock mini hub while maintaining stock geometry.

http://classicminisj...ball-joint-kit/

Very nicely made but not cheap.....

£41-20 each



#12 Magic jason

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 06:02 PM

If I'm understanding you correctly, this is what you need if you want sealed ball joints on a stock mini hub while maintaining stock geometry.

http://classicminisj...ball-joint-kit/

Very nicely made but not cheap.....

 

So they do exist, more or less  exactly what i was looking for but couldnt find them anywhere myself.

 

Right about not being cheap!



#13 mini13

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 08:02 PM

Interesting, although a few steps of those and your up to the price of a set of ally kad hubs that take the metro swivels.

#14 Magic jason

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 09:01 PM

Interesting, although a few steps of those and your up to the price of a set of ally kad hubs that take the metro swivels.

 

Thats why im wandering why theres not really a middle ground for using sealed units on the standard hub. Theres no real reason to us KAD hubs on just your every day Mini, especially for the sake of ball joints. It just seems like the best of both worlds to have droppers for those cars that run them to also use OEM Metro units. A one time purchase of say £100 for the dropper itself, then a cheap servicable unit for each time they would need replaceing. Keeps everything in a reasonable affordable price range. 

 

From what people have been saying i would imagine that just the small differences in the two types of ball joints would be a possible reason why.

 

Now im questioning why Minispares haven't come out with their own type of sealed unit like that from Japan. All be it pricey, its not like they need replacing every thousand miles, but i can understand that the supply and demand may just not be there.



#15 Moke Spider

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 12:15 AM

If the aim of this is to fit a sealed or better ball joint then fitting a dropper and a Metro Joint is not the best approach.

 

I've bought many sets of the Japanese sealed types and they are good. He also has an 'OEM' type of joint which unlike every other Joint I've bought in recent times, is actually good, at least equal to, if not, better than OEM Ball Joints.

 

I did speak a while back with one of the guys from Mini Spares regarding better ball joints and possibly offering these (or their own) sealed units and he was adamant that they wouldn't sell one. I don't run a shop, advertise or try to sell anything these days, but I've sold over 8 sets and have others waiting. I'm sure with the type of exposure Mini Spares has, they would sell well.






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