27 replies to this topic

[chrisg]

hey guys found loads of info on convering my switches to toggle switches, when looking for switches i found this kit
http://www.cbsonline...zkit-1840-p.asp

is this an easy way of making the conversion?
if so would i have to anything other than they describe in their diagram?
cheers

[Ethel]

What year is your Mini?

The kit looks very basic, no interrupt of the indicator circuit. You could build better out of the scrappers for less.

[chrisg]

its a 1994
i just want to conver tthe switches to toggle switches and it seamed like this solution would work with much less wiring than others i have read about, would just get a relay myself and uses the same method. but dont know what others think i hate doing electricals

[Ethel]

But that isn't a toggle switch and you already have a hazard flasher unit that's the same. Where were you going to put the switch, you could find a pull switch that'd go ok with toggles.

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...-...:1|240:1318

or similar

[chrisg]

no but i guess it could be replaced with a standard toggle switch and avoid having to wire in relays or other bits into the hazard circuit because they dont make a toggle switch that would directly replace a normal one

[Ethel]

The link you posted was for a standard 2 pin flasher and a rocker switch that'd wire in just like the Mini's.

If you really want a toggle switch you will have to use at least 2 relays and you'll need a warning light on the dash.

[Phaeton]

If you have two telltale lights, i.e. one for left & one for right as long as they both flash when the hazards are on you do not need a separate telltale.

Alan...

[Dan]

they dont make a toggle switch that would directly replace a normal one

Yes they do, I've said this several times but nobody listens. You need a 4 pole changeover switch, they make toggle switches in hundreds of different pinouts and functions because they are designed for industrial process control. You assume the switch in this kit can be replaced with a toggle but there is nothing describing the function of the switch. Looking at how it must function if the circuit in the diagram works I think it'll be easier to find a 4 pole toggle to match your others than to find one like this, it's a bit odd. It commons three poles when on, I suppose you'd describe it as SPST 0/A+B+C. As Ethel says, this is a pretty poor circuit design.

Here I have listed all the toggle switches needed to directly replace all the standard switches.

Regarding tell-tales, the MOT says that you don't need a seperate hazard tell-tale if the driver can see from the driver's seat one indicator on each side of the vehicle and I don't believe the tell-tales count. The lighting regulations however require a specific, independant closed circuit tell tale for the hazards even if the MOT doesn't.

Edited by Dan, 08 February 2009 - 07:31 PM.

[Phaeton]

Regarding tell-tales, the MOT says that you don't need a seperate hazard tell-tale if the driver can see from the driver's seat one indicator on each side of the vehicle and I don't believe the tell-tales count. The lighting regulations however require a specific, independant closed circuit tell tale for the hazards even if the MOT doesn't.

This is from the SVA manual I appreciate not the MOT manual but as these vehicles will eventually be MOT'd then they 'should' be to the correct legislation.

Section 9.1 Lighting/Signalling (Obligatory)

6.a.
Check the nearside & offside direction indicators are capable of flashing constantly at a rate of between 60 & 120 flashes per minute (with all mandatory indicators working).
NOTE: In cases where the rate is below the requirement, this check may be carried out with the engine running.

b.
Check the presence of a direction indicator "tell-tale" warning device.
NOTE: A "tell-tale" may be audible or visual, it is not required it one of more direction indicators on each side of the vehicle can be seen by the driver from the drivers seat.

7. Check the hazard Warning Device
a. operates with both the ignition switched both on & off

b, operates all the direction indicators causing them to flash simultaneously

c. has an operational "tell-tale" warning device.
NOTE: The "tell-tale" device must be in the form of a flashing light, which may be the same lamp as the direction indicator "tell-tale"

From that description I do not believe you need a separate "tell-tale" as long as you have 2 indicator "tell-tales" but as always I am happy to be proved wrong.

Alan...

[Ru55boy]

Edit: Doesn't work as it bridges the indicators, so that they also all flash when you don't want them to
Read in conjuction with Dan's later post...

I've just worked out a solution for replacing the Hazard rocker switch with a toggle switch....

I'm currently making an aluminium dash and I've made a switch panel to mount onto the dash.



I've kept the existing hazard switch to use as the flasher unit, but relocated it out of sight behind the dash.

The toggle switch is a standard 3 terminal (Power, Acc, Earth) single pole switch with an LED in the end. I've also got a warning light above it with 2 terminals (Power, Earth).

I connected the original switch power feed to the toggle switch power terminal. Then ran a wire from the Acc terminal on the toggle switch to the original switch where the power feed would've gone. Ran another wire from the Acc terminal to the warning light. Wire from warning light to earth, and toggle switch to earth.

And Keep the original switch / flasher unit switched on.

Now, when I turn on the new toggle switch, the indicators, warning light, and the end of the switch all flash!!


by the way, I'm re-arranging the warning lights, losing the side light warning and putting in a brake warning light above the "brake" switch.

Edited by Ru55boy, 12 February 2009 - 08:55 AM.

[Dan]

Errm, have you tested this in a car you are actually using? From the sounds of it the way you've wired it will have the indicators bridged together and they will all flash when you indicate, including the hazard telltale. It also fails to isolate the indicator flasher power supply while the hazards are on which can give funny results if you are using bimetal flasher units. Unless I've misunderstood what you've done. The hazard switch isn't a flasher unit it's just a switch, albeit a complicated one. The complicated bit is keeping both sides of the indicator circuit seperate until the hazards are running. If it turns out you do have problems I can send you a diagram of how to use the toggle you have got and add some relays and diodes to get it working.

The "tell-tale" device must be in the form of a flashing light, which may be the same lamp as the direction indicator "tell-tale"

From that description I do not believe you need a separate "tell-tale" as long as you have 2 indicator "tell-tales" but as always I am happy to be proved wrong.

From the sound of it that SVA regulation is taken from a later version of the lighting regulations than will apply to most Minis. I think the last revision was in 2002 and the regulations that apply to most of our cars are obviously older than that. The '88 regulation, and all previous versions AFAIK says that there must be a closed circuit tell-tale which may operate in conjunction with the indicator tell-tales. It doesn't say may be the same lamp.

Edited by Dan, 11 February 2009 - 02:03 PM.

[gav]

I'm pretty sure you can buy toggle switches for the hazard as Dan says, don't car builder solutions do them? I'm sure someone with a z-cars mini had them all converted on a curley dash on here.

[Ethel]

Maplins list one but it's only 5amps.

Reading that bit of SVA manual posted it sounds like you don't need any extra tell tale at all even if you just have one indicator warning lamp. Still far easier to fit one and avoid any arguments.

[Ru55boy]

Errm, have you tested this in a car you are actually using? From the sounds of it the way you've wired it will have the indicators bridged together and they will all flash when you indicate, including the hazard telltale. It also fails to isolate the indicator flasher power supply while the hazards are on which can give funny results if you are using bimetal flasher units. Unless I've misunderstood what you've done. The hazard switch isn't a flasher unit it's just a switch, albeit a complicated one. The complicated bit is keeping both sides of the indicator circuit seperate until the hazards are running. If it turns out you do have problems I can send you a diagram of how to use the toggle you have got and add some relays and diodes to get it working.

Thanks Dan,

I was wiring in the switch panel yesterday so I tested the hazard switch and it obviously works fine, but I didn't check the indicator selection afterwards.

I'll edit my previous post accordingly so as not to mislead.

Could you send me a diagram? I'll either try that or buy a different switch.

Cheers

[chrisg]

hey
cheers dan yeah read your previous posts was looking for the switch you said to use when i found that any idea who has that type of switch found a couple changeover switches with six conectors but not sure if they are the right ones. think im just going to go for the diode method form one of the earlier posts and def put a tell tale on the dash.
nice looking pannel by the way ru55boy how did you put the lettering on to it?