25 replies to this topic

[Hughes]

You seem to be trying to fix something rather than identifying the cause?

Your wires are obviously getting wet/damp being at the front by the grill, you can however buy split plastic loom covers. Sort of like 'wire tidies' they will protect your wires from the elements a bit better and make everything look better too.

When I did the wiring for my spotlights and horn I got a hose pipe and sprayed the grill looking at where the water collect, drips and flows etc - I was then able to find best spot to route the wires and wrapped them as well as covered them in the plastic split loom cover. Use a few cable ties and it remains pretty water tight.

to be honest the car doesnt ever get wet anymore - and wont very often. Its just the headlights play up and it is definatly the bullets. They are quite kernackered. Cant understand why Rover persisted with them. But the hose pipe is a good idea! Just to be sure.

I also wanted to re-route the wires for a tidier bay. The wires also get in the way of the weather shield which can be a git.

I must say im surprised people would prefer a crimp over a soldered joint tho.

H

[Hughes]

I've soldered all these joints for reliability on several of my minis with no problems whatsover, unlike the original ones which, on a daily driver, are often problematic. Also done the ones that join near the wiper motor, but then i can solder properly without dry joints so once done and retaped into the loom it's all good and reliable. I do roughly 15000 miles a year too!

Good stuff! Whats a dry joint? I havent soldered since school.

[Jammy]

AMP Superseals. Can get them from VWP.

[cambiker71]

I've soldered all these joints for reliability on several of my minis with no problems whatsover, unlike the original ones which, on a daily driver, are often problematic. Also done the ones that join near the wiper motor, but then i can solder properly without dry joints so once done and retaped into the loom it's all good and reliable. I do roughly 15000 miles a year too!

Good stuff! Whats a dry joint? I havent soldered since school.

It's when the solder doesn't take properly to the wires making a bad connection, if you 'tin' each wire end first (heat the wire with the soldering iron, add a little solder so it melts in to the strands making a "solder full" wire end) then holding them together add a small amount of solder, when the two wires 'tinned' ends melt. Then let them all cool whilst keeping it all held in place. Done properly makes a good reliable join, you should end up with what looks like two wires stuck together as if they had been dipped in molten solder.

[SolarB]

Solder is the best way to go and that part of the loom doesn't need to be taken apart ever again. It's only in sections for integration on the assembly line as the headlight connector will not pass through the hole in the inner wing. If the connector could pass through the inner wing the inline connections wouldn't be there at all.

Modern sealed connectors are very good but the traditional bullet and spade connectors are pretty awful in exposed conditions. If you decide to solder you will have to cut the wires back a few inches from the connectors. Soldering requires clean copper but the conductors will have corroded and become dirty even underneath the insulation, the further back you cut the wire from the original crimp the better the situation becomes, keep cutting back until you find copper that easily solders. Crimping is different and breaks through thin layers of surface corrosion and oxidization that would give problems with soldering.

You can buy adhesive lined heatshrink but it's not necessary for solder joints, normal heatshrink is fine to insulate the joint.

[Disco Dan]

I've soldered all these joints for reliability on several of my minis with no problems whatsover, unlike the original ones which, on a daily driver, are often problematic. Also done the ones that join near the wiper motor, but then i can solder properly without dry joints so once done and retaped into the loom it's all good and reliable. I do roughly 15000 miles a year too!

Good stuff! Whats a dry joint? I havent soldered since school.

Goto this site for more info - http://www3.telus.ne...g/Soldering.htm

[Jammy]

Are there any motorsport or automotive companies that use solder in wiring looms?

[GraemeC]

Doubt it - the tolerance of vibration of a crimped joint is much better than a soldered one, giving better reliability in an operating environment that is full of vibrations at various frequencies.

The quality of the electrical conductivity will be no worse (some may argue better) in a well made crimp joint than in a soldered one.

Edited by GraemeC, 01 April 2009 - 12:22 PM.

[Jammy]

That's along the same lines as what I was thinking. A soldered joint will still need electrical tape covering it, why not just crimp it and then put electrical tape round it? It'll be just as weather-proof as the soldered joint, with the added benefit of you being able to disconnect it, and also keeps the wiring loom standard (useful for future owners). Plus, as Graeme says, it'll be able to cope with the vibrations better.

I still maintain that AMP Superseal connectors are ideal in this situation, being fully weather-proof, and specifically designed for automotive and aeronautical use.

[SolarB]

Sorry people, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

Doubt it - the tolerance of vibration of a crimped joint is much better than a soldered one, giving better reliability in an operating environment that is full of vibrations at various frequencies.

Not true, an un-supported crimp joint will fail through vibration just as easily as a soldered joint. What's important is how you support the wire either side of the joint, not the type of joint.

The quality of the electrical conductivity will be no worse (some may argue better) in a well made crimp joint than in a soldered one.

You're defending both sides of the argument here, but it depends very much on the quality of the soldering or crimping. If you have the correct crimp tool the crimp will be reliable, quick to make and most importantly for the manufacturer, requires little skill. Good solder joints and quality crimps will have resistances in the low m ohms.

Plus, as Graeme says, it'll be able to cope with the vibrations better.

How so?

I still maintain that AMP Superseal connectors are ideal in this situation, being fully weather-proof, and specifically designed for automotive and aeronautical use.

Jammy's right, these are nice connectors designed for semi rugged environments and if you have the correct crimp tool for them they are very good.
However, I've had two fail on my modern car. The crimp was fine but the wire broke outside the connector because no one at Ford though to support the loom, and this is my point. Both methods of joining wires are good if you use a little common sense, and both can be bad it you don't know what you're doing and/or don't give it a little thought.

[Ethel]

I think the bullets usually fail where the wire goes in to the male bit - possibly galvanic corrosion or just fatigue as the just the copper is involved and the bullet is rock solid. I agree with Jammy upgrade to some modern waterproof connectors. I just got some Superseals off Ebay - best price I could find. A headlamp filament will need about 5amps

Thought I'd best add, but probl'y didn't need to, the lowest rated component in the circuit should be the fuse.