20 replies to this topic

[1984mini25]

Right basically I’ve been at conflict with a next door neighbour for the best part of 5 years ever since me and my folks went away on holiday one summer only to come back and find this neighbour had decided to move his fence 2 foot over in my garden > (as shown in red) just so he wouldn’t lose any of his garden, since his extra bit of drive would cut into it as the local council won’t allow a dropped curb without a specified drive already in place.
And was claming the bit outside the gardens past the lamp post on my side, up until I stuck the Mayfair on it as he knew, what with it not being his property he couldn’t do anything to shift it although he has tried.

[attachment=83623:fence.JPG]

Only this has screwed up any plans of doing the same, I would really like to get the minis enclosed at the end of the garden to stop them from being continually vandalised, as the “shared” end fence post is now on their side and would then mean adding in an extra one to stop the fence failing down before moving what’s left further into the garden for the required drive, but in doing that would be admitting defeat.

I’ve (well my folks have) tried pretty much every thing we can think of with in reasonable costs, which originally started with politely asking them to move it back, but as one of them is a copper, it’s pretty much his word goes and they enjoy the fact that they know by moving the fence in the first place means less garden space and messes up plans of curb lowered, new drive etc. >

The problem I’ve come up against is NO one will give a definite answer, the council only dropped the curb up to the lamp post which to me shows that’s the boundary, as normally you don’t find lampposts in the middle of a property and what use would a drive be with a post in the middle of it anyway, although the council don’t want to put anything in writing in case it come back to them, etc, etc.

But now the neighbours in question have put the house on the market and sold it, tried contacting the estate agent with no reply/answer, So by the looks of it they can sod off and the fence stays were it is and it’s up to the new owners if there aware of the problem or not…

[camp freddy]

Right basically I've been at conflict with a next door neighbour for the best part of 5 years ever since me and my folks went away on holiday one summer only to come back and find this neighbour had decided to move his fence 2 foot over in my garden > (as shown in red) just so he wouldn't lose any of his garden, since his extra bit of drive would cut into it as the local council won't allow a dropped curb without a specified drive already in place.
And was claming the bit outside the gardens past the lamp post on my side, up until I stuck the Mayfair on it as he knew, what with it not being his property he couldn't do anything to shift it although he has tried.

[attachment=83623:fence.JPG]

Only this has screwed up any plans of doing the same, I would really like to get the minis enclosed at the end of the garden to stop them from being continually vandalised, as the "shared" end fence post is now on their side and would then mean adding in an extra one to stop the fence failing down before moving what's left further into the garden for the required drive, but in doing that would be admitting defeat.

I've (well my folks have) tried pretty much every thing we can think of with in reasonable costs, which originally started with politely asking them to move it back, but as one of them is a copper, it's pretty much his word goes and they enjoy the fact that they know by moving the fence in the first place means less garden space and messes up plans of curb lowered, new drive etc. >

The problem I've come up against is NO one will give a definite answer, the council only dropped the curb up to the lamp post which to me shows that's the boundary, as normally you don't find lampposts in the middle of a property and what use would a drive be with a post in the middle of it anyway, although the council don't want to put anything in writing in case it come back to them, etc, etc.

But now the neighbours in question have put the house on the market and sold it, tried contacting the estate agent with no reply/answer, So by the looks of it they can sod off and the fence stays were it is and it's up to the new owners if there aware of the problem or not…

You should check the deeds to the house, this should show the boundarys.

[Ethel]

You should have got hold of his home information pack while it was on the market, it's for stuff exactly like this. Dunno if you still can, quite possibly.

[1984mini25]

You should check the deeds to the house, this should show the boundarys.

Tired that, it does show boundaries (ish) but doesn’t have measurements and are only approximate.

You should have got hold of his home information pack while it was on the market, it's for stuff exactly like this. Dunno if you still can, quite possibly.

Well at the mo it’s as sold, but there still finagling the paperwork, etc. so might or might not go through. It’s been noted to the agency several times from about 5 min after the 4 sale boards went up.

Suppose it would be a shame for it to suddenly fall over and move in the time it take the current owners to move and the new ones to move in.

[Udo]

as camp freddy put, get a copy of your deeds, they will clearly show where the boundary is and the new owners should also have seen theirs which should, if what you have said is correct (not saying it isn't by the way) also shown that the fence is in the wrong place.

I would try and contact them via the estate agent, maybe give them a copy of the deeds, to inform the new owners before they move in, you don't want an arguement on the first day really.

It could of course put the new buyers off the whole thing!

Think they have to put that they are in dispute with you in the HIPS pack also

[Ethel]

Did you independently establish that they moved the fence without telling you while you were away?

If they felt the need to do it underhand it hardly gives the impression they believed they were in the right - nor is it the kind of behaviour you'd expect a police officer's employers to be happy with.

[slyoldfox2001]

whats stoppping you moving it back ?
just do it ?

it will become a civil action that they wont bother with if they're selling it.

they also have to declare by law to their solicitors if they have any old or current disputes with any neighbours.

[1984mini25]

whats stoppping you moving it back ?
just do it ?

it will become a civil action that they wont bother with if they're selling it.

they also have to declare by law to their solicitors if they have any old or current disputes with any neighbours.

Because even though it’s in the wrong place it’s still there property, and from the advice of a solicitor, I could then be liable to be sued for moving it.

[Ethel]

Put up a new fence along the old fence line instead?

[mini93]

whats stoppping you moving it back ?
just do it ?

it will become a civil action that they wont bother with if they're selling it.

they also have to declare by law to their solicitors if they have any old or current disputes with any neighbours.

Because even though it’s in the wrong place it’s still there property, and from the advice of a solicitor, I could then be liable to be sued for moving it.

if its moved into your porperty its not there's though, its surly that simple (providing you can somewhere find evidence to back up this fact), just because' hes a copper doesnt mean he can abuse his apparent knowlage...well i know how to use a spanner...yes, you can use a 13mm spanner on a 1/2 inch..doesnt mean its right

[Udo]

Put up a new fence along the old fence line instead?

and by fence it doesn't have to be posts and panels - just something to define the boundary then if they remove that sue them!

[Dan]

First off, ignore the position of the lamp post or anything to do with the council. They have dropped the kerb as far as the lamp post simply because a) that's how much kerb your neighbour paid to have dropped and b) they didn't want to have to reset the lamp post base which they have to ask the electicity board to get involved with. The council have no idea about your land boundry, unless it's a council house which I'm guessing it isn't. The Land Registry might know about the boundries but if the house hasn't changed hands in the last 10 or 15 years or so it's not likely. Your deeds and your neighbour's deeds will show a boundry but identifying it accurately to within a metre or two isn't always possible from the deeds, because you've normally only got a photostat copy of them with a big red ink mark on them showing your plot and the ink blurs the edges. If the original surveying posts (usually in large developments these tend to be the original concrete posts at the corner of each plot from the original 3-wire fences) still exist you can measure off these but they tend to vanish over the years. You could get a surveyor to come and inspect the boundry and compare it to the original copy of the deeds if you can get hold of it. Then again two surveyors will often disagree with each other to within a couple of feet of a boundry so your neighbour could simply get their own surveyor to claim against you.

In short there is no accurate way to determine your boundry. They tend to be determined based on what's been there in the past and what's been agreed or simply accepted between neighbours. There is a law that if a piece of land has held an accepted boundry undisputed for 12 years then that is good enough to be proof of who owns which side of what line and to define where the line is. If the fence was in one place for 12 years or more before your neighbour moved it then as I understand it they have stolen your land.

Regarding the fence I believe you are entitled to remove it and return it to their property providing you don't damage any part of it, which means carefully digging out the posts and any concrete holding them. You can only do that though if you can prove for definite that it is on your land and I suspect that is why you have been advised against it. It would be a bad idea to move it without discussing it properly.

This is the kind of thing that drags on forever if you start proceedings. Unfortunately there is little you can do about it, you just have to come to terms with your neighbours. Try searching the Land Registry to see if they have both your and your neighbour's house listed. The neighbour's property should be there if it has just been sold even if yours isn't. They are on-line and I think it costs about £2.00 to download a record for a property. This might help you to find the actual plot boundry. You might equally find though that each set of plans shows the same piece of land belongs to its plot.

[RowenBlaineSkinley]

just move it. i would. and if they start up something smash em on the nose. yeah! that'l show them land thieving ass wipes

[kez_19]

well if it were me i would wait until the new owners move in (if you cant get it solved beforehand) then i would explain the problem to them and that you have done everything to get the previous owners to move it and offer to move the fence yourself that way they don't feel that you come over and start moaning as they are trying to move in and you get the job done as you want it and still keep the peace with the new owners

michael

[sixwheeler]

I presume that the red line is the one that is at an angle and that your house is on the right of the picture.

In that case, if it is a line of houses then the fact that the fence is now at an odd angle to the rest of the plot would indicate that there is something wrong. In a line of houses the boundaries are normally straight - is this in a line of houses? Also, it appears that the new fence starts at the same place as the old boundary which has set an agreed boundary line as it were. If the boundary was in question, then it would be averagely normal to move the whole boundary over by 2', not just the one end.

Further, of course, what is good for the goose is good for the gander - In which case there is little stopping you from moving the fence back to the original position or indeed putting up your own fence along the original boundary!

Do you have any photographs of any original fence, any neighbours that remember, what about other houses in the street?

Don't worry about him being a police man, they have far fewer powers than many like to think and it basically would come down to a court deciding what is correct - If this was to happen then this is where you need all the documented evidence. Dates, times, histories, converations, deeds, photos, witness statements etc. to give yourselves a good strong case. The fact that the fence was moved while you were away without any consultation has them on the back foot straight away in any case! Further, if your drawing is 'accurate', it would suggest that the extra bit of drive is new and if it that was taken away then the original boundary would be equidistant between the two original drives - which would make sense.

A google earth image would be quite useful, it would put it in context. Chances are it will show the new fence but there is a small chance that it is out of date and would show the old arrangement - worth a look.

From what you have said and from the evidence supplied, I think you would win hands down (my opinion only, obviously). I would, however, be tempted to sort it before the house is sold else that could open a whole new can of worms.