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When To Rub Down Laquer


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#1 brianmini

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 09:13 AM

Pretty much as above, I'm going to be applying the laquer coat to my mini very shortly, how long should I leave the laquer before buffing (rubbing compound) it for a shine?

I guess I should give some background info too, painted with Hellfrauds rattle can Arcylic Rover BRG, its been flatted down with 1500wet and dry (and soapy water) to get the surface smooth as silk, then a final coat of BRG applied to blend in any light area's, mainly front panel (where I was a bit over zealous with my sanding).

#2 spiguy

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 09:39 AM

Pretty much as above, I'm going to be applying the laquer coat to my mini very shortly, how long should I leave the laquer before buffing (rubbing compound) it for a shine?

I guess I should give some background info too, painted with Hellfrauds rattle can Arcylic Rover BRG, its been flatted down with 1500wet and dry (and soapy water) to get the surface smooth as silk, then a final coat of BRG applied to blend in any light area's, mainly front panel (where I was a bit over zealous with my sanding).


Holy crap - did you do the whole car with rattle cans? If so, I am very impressed! I just spent ages doing half the passenger side door and A panel with rattle cans, and it was horrible! Got a good finish in the end, but terrible terrible colour match (BRG like you by the way). How many cans of paint did it take?

I am treating it as a learning experience... Hope to do new door skins and A panels next year, and buy a compressor etc. to paint it.

Anyway, not saying its right but heres what I did, and I certainly ended up with a good mirror finish. sorry if you don't need this advice, just sharing my experience.

Seems to me that the key is to maintain flatness at all stages - primer, colour, lacquer. So I flatted the colour coat as flat as I could with 1200 then 1500 grit wet and dry, using a hand spray with soapy water in it to keep it wet all the time.

After applying several acrylic acquer coats, I let it dry for 48 hours. I have flatted lacquer on the other A panel after only 24 hours and it seemed to be OK.
I then flatted the lacquer the same as described above for the colour coat. The flatter you get it at this stage, the less cutting required with the compound.

Next I used halfords rubbing compound, with a hand sprayer with just clean water in to keep it wet. Halfords stuff seems to be a bit coarser than G3 so I found that using this first saved time. Did a fair bit of rubbing by hand, and then used a buff on it. Started to see a bit of shine.

Next I repeated the above step using G3 compound. Applied G3 and rubbed down with the buff, applying a bit of pressure and repeated that a couple of times. Made sure to keep misting the panel with water to keep it damp.

Lastly, washed it down with clean water and let it dry. After it was dry I used this stuff (which is running out and I cant find it anywhere!) called Bosun paint restorer - looks a bit like T cut but its thinner. Dries to a haze and after buffing off with a clean cloth, it was all gleaming.

Sadly I have 'repaired' rusty panels so it will all rust out again within no time at all. But as I said, I did it mainly to learn how to get a good result, in preparation for doing it with a compressor etc in the future.

Hope this is of some use to you. Good luck!

Craig

Edited by carlukemini, 23 April 2009 - 09:53 AM.


#3 Pauly

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 09:56 AM

You dont need to rub down the base coat, just apply then laquer straight on top.

With rattle cans I would say a few days, before cutting back.

Paul.

#4 spiguy

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 12:15 PM

You dont need to rub down the base coat, just apply then laquer straight on top.

With rattle cans I would say a few days, before cutting back.

Paul.


Really? I thought you did need to flat the base coat. Sure I read it somewhere. Don't you end up just building on the orange peel and giving yourself extra orange peel on the lacquer?

Cheers
Craig

#5 brianmini

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 12:28 PM

I think I've used about 12cans.... scary I know, but done the whole car nearly, minus bonnet, boot, drivers door and A-panel. I'll do them too if they don't match (which I expect they wont). Still got the passenger door to do, but I had to source a decent second hand one first.

So I've spent about £50 on BRG rattle cans, crazy I know, but I was getting into the flow and It beat cleaning out a spray gun every night.

I've got Hellfrauds rubbing compound too... basically the heat is on, and I need to have the car back on the road in 2 weeks so I kinda ram raided the shop with my shopping basket. Need to go buy some G3 then I guess too.

I'm pleased I flatted back the paint, as it had plenty of imperfections (fluff, dust, dead flies, dry paint dust when I held the can too far away), this way I hopefully won't have to put on so much laquer coats.

I'll upload some more pics when the job is done, it'll either be fine or total mince. Either way at least I know the new metal is protected. My mini has always been a bit of a banger, and i'm pleased to say it probably always will. As you'll see from the pic, it was a right beat up beastie until I went crazy with the welder.

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#6 spiguy

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 12:53 PM

I think I've used about 12cans.... scary I know, but done the whole car nearly, minus bonnet, boot, drivers door and A-panel. I'll do them too if they don't match (which I expect they wont). Still got the passenger door to do, but I had to source a decent second hand one first.

So I've spent about £50 on BRG rattle cans, crazy I know, but I was getting into the flow and It beat cleaning out a spray gun every night.

I've got Hellfrauds rubbing compound too... basically the heat is on, and I need to have the car back on the road in 2 weeks so I kinda ram raided the shop with my shopping basket. Need to go buy some G3 then I guess too.

I'm pleased I flatted back the paint, as it had plenty of imperfections (fluff, dust, dead flies, dry paint dust when I held the can too far away), this way I hopefully won't have to put on so much laquer coats.

I'll upload some more pics when the job is done, it'll either be fine or total mince. Either way at least I know the new metal is protected. My mini has always been a bit of a banger, and i'm pleased to say it probably always will. As you'll see from the pic, it was a right beat up beastie until I went crazy with the welder.


Hi Brian, just noticed that I hadn't spotted you were a fellow Scot! By your description your car sounds like mine! My car is tatty to say the least, and like you I suspect it always will be! I got it originally from South Side minis in Glasgow - was only 4 years old and not a spot of rust on it. Sadly I didn't waxoyl it very well, and as you know Scotland is not kind to minis! So now I'm just trying to tidy it up a bit, but the paint match off the cans is terrible! Would be better to do the whole car like you... Don't know if I could face that mind you. It took me ages doing that door - the A panel is nice and easy though. Plus when you get to about the last 1/4 of the can it stops spraying properly!

My car really should be getting new A panels, door skins, and a new scuttle. But instead (for now) its getting P40 and halfords paint...

Where you get your door from by the way? You in any of the clubs (caledonian, Mini clan). If the car gets it MOT in May, I should be joining again but not sure which club to go for. Used to in the Mini Clan.

Good luck with the project. Maybe see you some time.

Cheers
Craig

EDIT - donkey ears on... I see you are in the Mini Clan

Edited by carlukemini, 23 April 2009 - 12:56 PM.


#7 brianmini

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 09:04 PM

I got my mini from Dairsie Autopoint, was a con merchant, car was ropey and tarted up. Spent nothing but money on mechanicals over the next while. Sadly that meant I had no money to deal with the rusty body.

So back to the topic....


Laquer.... what do you do after you've applied it and its all bloody runs? Some of the panels look fine, but others have runs. Can i just rub these back with 1500wet and dry with soapy water like I did with the basecoat.

#8 spiguy

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 06:54 PM

I got my mini from Dairsie Autopoint, was a con merchant, car was ropey and tarted up. Spent nothing but money on mechanicals over the next while. Sadly that meant I had no money to deal with the rusty body.

So back to the topic....


Laquer.... what do you do after you've applied it and its all bloody runs? Some of the panels look fine, but others have runs. Can i just rub these back with 1500wet and dry with soapy water like I did with the basecoat.


Hi, sorry not been looking in on the thread. I had a few runs too. Mostly you get runs by trying too hard to get the 'wet look'. You don't really need to do that as you will be flatting the lacquer and then using rubbing compound to get the shine. But yes, you should be able to get rid of the runs when flatting (as described below) - just try to rub only the run until its about flat in case you rub right through the lacquer!

So, let it harden for a couple of days, then use 1200 or 1500 - I did 1200 then 1500 - with soapy water until it feels flat. Then use rubbing compound and water to try and get the shine up. It can take quite a while - persevere with it. Just make sure you get the lacquer as flat as possible with the 1200 / 1500 grit, otherwise you will be there for ages with the rubbing compound trying to get it to shine. If you have a buffer / polisher you should use it.. major time saver. Just remember to regularly mist the panel with water, and don't lean in too heavy.

I found the halfords rubbing compound to be very good. See if you are happy with it before shelling out for G3...

Strangely, I found that both the halfords compound and G3 worked great on the fresh acrylic lacquer, but left the original lacquer on my door (I only 'repaired' half of it which I now regret as it is two tone..) a bit hazy. I had to use some other polish stuff to get a really good shine on the old lacquer.

he he I reversed the car out of the garage today into the sunshine. Jeez it looks crap in natural light! And my A panel bodge ups are bubbling through again already!

Good luck!

Edited by carlukemini, 24 April 2009 - 06:57 PM.


#9 brianmini

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 07:23 PM

Well I didn't want to leave the lacquer too long, I mean the harder it gets the harder it would be to flat back and try to get rid of the runs.

So I spent part of the 6 hours I worked on the car today rubbing back, did it outside in bright sunlight rather than dark garage, still some runs sadly.... but its good enough for me.... applied more lacquer as you can see attached. It still needs final flatting back and buffing.

And final good news, was working away hard on the replacement passenger door, its skinned now, hinges fitted. Just needs painting up and fitting... so I'll bash on with that tomorrow.

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#10 spiguy

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 09:13 PM

Well I didn't want to leave the lacquer too long, I mean the harder it gets the harder it would be to flat back and try to get rid of the runs.

So I spent part of the 6 hours I worked on the car today rubbing back, did it outside in bright sunlight rather than dark garage, still some runs sadly.... but its good enough for me.... applied more lacquer as you can see attached. It still needs final flatting back and buffing.

And final good news, was working away hard on the replacement passenger door, its skinned now, hinges fitted. Just needs painting up and fitting... so I'll bash on with that tomorrow.



Looking good! Keep the thread alive with pics of your progress. Just finishing my pitiful efforts at 'tidying up' mine, then got the adjustable suspension to fit to the drivers side (done the passenger side) to get it off the bump stop... Then a plate in the boot floor (if I can get my mig to work properly) and fingers crossed it might get an MOT!

Cheers
Craig

#11 nomininolife

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 11:05 PM

Hi Guys

I am about to aerosol my mini, on the subject of lacquer, do you let the paint dry then apply or do you apply whilst the paint is still wet?


Regards

David

#12 spiguy

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 10:30 AM

Hi Guys

I am about to aerosol my mini, on the subject of lacquer, do you let the paint dry then apply or do you apply whilst the paint is still wet?


Regards

David


Hi. You must let the paint coat dry for 24 hours at least. Then you can flat it with 1200 grit or finer wet and dry, using soapy water.

Once the panels are dry, then you apply the lacquer. Build it up in thin coats just like you did with the paint. If you are lucky you will get the lacquer to go on with a 'wet finish' which reduces the amount of flattint / cutting you need to do later. But don't wory about it if it goes on dull - you will be flatting it anyway.

Get a good few coats of lacquer on it, then let it dry for minimum 24 hours - 2-3 days is probably better. Then, as you did with the paint coat, flat it with 1200grit or finer wet and dry and soapy water. Once flat, bring it to a shine with rubbing compound, keeping the surface damp (not soaking) as you rub. If you have a polisher it will save you alot of time and arm pain at this stage!

Craig

#13 brianmini

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 12:59 PM

Hi Guys

I am about to aerosol my mini, on the subject of lacquer, do you let the paint dry then apply or do you apply whilst the paint is still wet?


Regards

David



My recommendation is don't aerosol the whole car, its a massive pain in the nuts! I should know i've been painting mine over the last few weeks (when I've had time).

If you still want to go for Aerosol then patience is the way to go, i've spent ages and its still not 100%, I personally can still see where i've repaired, maybe its just me though. (i'm no perfectionist with my mini though, its always been a bit of a banger, so long as its solid is my only concern)

On the point of lacquer, its an even bigger pain in the nuts! So easy to get runs, and they are a nightmare to remove. Even flatting them down flush you can still see the mark because it changes to colour of the basecoat.

What I did in the end was paint the lacquer outside, there was the slightest of breeze which caused about 50% of the lacquer to blow away and not hit the panel, which seemed to be just the right amount to not get runs. Fortunately there were no flies about, but it did mean you waste a hell of a lot of lacquer.

I'll be flatting back in the next few days hopefully and i've got an electric polishing setup, i'll post pics of the results. Hopefully they'll give you an idea of the job ahead.

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#14 nomininolife

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 11:57 PM

I have no choice with the aerosols due to cost and lack of availability of electricity, but I will see how it goes.

Thanks for the advice.

It will be good to see you results.

David

#15 brianmini

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 07:32 AM

I have no choice with the aerosols due to cost and lack of availability of electricity, but I will see how it goes.

Thanks for the advice.

It will be good to see you results.

David


Well on the cost front, remember its like £5.99 for an aerosol can of colour, and you'll go through maybe 10 cans if you do a good job. Thats not including the base primer, I went through 6 of them (larger cans).

Also worth factoring in f**k up costs, you'll do it plenty with spray cans, and end up getting 1 splatter on a panel which will involve rubbing it all back and then using another can to coat it again. I've got plenty of runs, sadly, but end of the day i'm in a hurry now with a tight deadline.




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