20 replies to this topic

[WanaGo]

Hi

Just wondering if there is a specific torque that the castle nuts need to be done up to, that hold the CV's in the bearings/hubs etc.

I redid all my bearings etc and went to put on the castle nuts, but the hole through the CV wouldnt line up with the castle nut slots unless the nut was only finger tight. Putting a normal turn on the nut with a cresent meant the slot just wouldnt line up.

What normally happens here.
With the nut only finger tight I get some movement - so thats obviously not correct.

If anyone can tell me, that would be great.

Thanks

[Turbo Nick]

if its on discs then do them up to 150 lb/ft then keep tightening till you can get the cotter pin through.


you'll need a decent torque wrench and some weetabix for brekky

Edited by bud666, 02 July 2009 - 11:21 PM.

[guywithvan]

81 newton metre's on rear hubs,althought im having probs myself today with fresh bearings and not reaching the tourque and castle nut going way past the hole for split pin ,hub then not turning and me swearing alot!,i need help too

[WanaGo]

Thanks for the info.
Well its good to know I can keep cranking till it lines up - without going overboard of course.
I have a couple of spare castle nuts - I might even take a sliver off the back of it to try and get the gap to line up.

Appriciate the fast responces.

[L400RAS]

if its on discs then do them up to 150 lb/ft then keep tightening till you can get the cotter pin through.


you'll need a decent torque wrench and some weetabix for brekky

This all depends on number of holes in driveshaft;

Disc brake models:
With multiple split pin holes in driveshaft . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 207Nm 150Lbf ft
With single split pin hole in driveshaft . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 255 to 270Nm 188 to 200 Lbf ft

[bmcecosse]

Most normal torque wrenches don't go high enough ! +*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+. They need to be as tight as you can make them - using a long steel pole on a T bar, and then ON to the next space in the castle nut! In orther words - extremely tight!
At the rear - if the hub won't turn then the spacer between the bearings is too thin - either shim it - or use a slightly thicker spacer. They must NOT be assembled without a spacer.

Edited by Dan, 03 July 2009 - 10:05 PM.
Dangerous advice removed.

[WanaGo]

Thanks.

Yes I have discs at front (mini hubs, mini cvs, 4 pot metro calipers and drive flanges), standard drums at back. Single hole though the CV's.
Rears are 1275GT ones and have 2 holes though them I think. I have spacers between them. Use all the bits out of the Timken kits from Minispares - new front and rear.

I will tighten everything up as I think I have everything too loose.

PS - here is my build - just got it on the road on the 1st. Hopefully its fine tomorrow and ill take some pics and update the site. http://mini.taktik.co.nz

Edited by WanaGo, 03 July 2009 - 11:29 AM.

[guywithvan]

im still stuck with mine ,i used minisport for the bearings part no-GHK1548 i really took my time doing this as i've not changed bearings on a mini before,made sure the hub's were very clean and no damage from removing the old bearings.i carefully "well" packed the bearings the proper way ,drifted in the races till in their proper place and added the bearing to matching races already pre greased.i used everything in the kit

when the hub is on the radius arm and i put the washer on chamfered side facing bearing then castle nut,i have one hole for split pin and even at finger tight that has gone past the outer edge of the nut so the split pin would do nothing.

bmcecosse-bearings have a spacer,i removed "ball" bearings,and re fitted roller bearings supplied by minisport,i would have guessed all in the kit and nothing else needed?!?

any help much appreciated

guy

[Dan]

Bmcecosse, please don't contribute to this thread any more unless you have some better advice to give. Your advice here was dangerous and foolish so I have edited it out.

There is a very specific procedure for torqueing the front hubs that must be followed. This is essential to properly seat the bearings, if you don't do it then the bearing will not be properly pre-loaded and rapid bearing failure is almost certain to follow along with damage to the CV joint.

You need to buy, find or make a large, strong flat washer. This is a special tool for seating the bearings. The dimensions you need are in the Haynes manual (as is the whole procedure) but if you can't get one the thick version of the A series fan spacer is the right size. Build the wheel bearing and then torque it up using the flat washer in place of the cone washer. Torque the nut to the right setting depending on the CV type (as listed above by L400RAS), then tighten to the next split pin hole. Now back the nut off and replace the flat washer with the proper conical washer. While doing this you must not disturb any of the arrangement or fit of the parts. Re-torque the nut to the proper setting and again align to the next hole. Fit the pin and the job is done.

If you don't do this then what usually happens is the conical washer grabs the nose of the CV joint before the bearing is seated. Nomatter how much you tighten it after that the bearing will not come together. This damages the joint and also means the bearing is useless. It is essential that you set the torque properly, this bearing must be pre-loaded to the correct level and that is done by torqueing the nut. You need an appropriate torque wrench.

I would also point out that it is not possible to adjust a taper roller bearing, skimming or shimming the spacer is terrible engineering practice unless the bearing is designed for re-building and you do it properly. Once a taper bearing is worn it is worn, it must be replaced.

All of this information has been posted several times already.

[bmcecosse]

On that rear hub - if you removed 'ball bearings' it must have been an old set! Timken roller bearings need a hardened spacer between the bearings - if you don't have it - then that's going to be a problem. I would ask the supplier where the part is. It's possible they expect you to use the spacer from the old bearings - in your case this won't work, because 'roller' bearings had no spacer. And in any case - I would think it's unlikely to have been exactly the correct thickness for the new bearings - even if you did have one !!
I agree with the last part above - you can't 'take up wear' by re-shimming/machining the spacer etc - but it must be set correctly for the new bearings - and often this requires some adjustment of the spacer to get it exactly right.

Edited by bmcecosse, 03 July 2009 - 10:15 PM.

[WanaGo]

You need to buy, find or make a large, strong flat washer. This is a special tool for seating the bearings. The dimensions you need are in the Haynes manual (as is the whole procedure) but if you can't get one the thick version of the A series fan spacer is the right size.

I will have a hunt on this forum for the dimensions as I dont have a Haynes manual. If you could list them however, that would be handy.

I have been though my MOT equilivant test over here and they checked all the 'feel' of the wheels and said they were all good - hopefully I have preloaded them ok and the conical washer hasnt bound on tightning. I will remove and recheck them though.

Thanks

[bmcecosse]

I have to say - I have never used or had to use the 'big flat washer' method for installing Timken Roller bearings - and I have installed many over the years - and all have served very well, with no problems!

[guywithvan]

On that rear hub - if you removed 'ball bearings' it must have been an old set! Timken roller bearings need a hardened spacer between the bearings - if you don't have it - then that's going to be a problem. I would ask the supplier where the part is. It's possible they expect you to use the spacer from the old bearings - in your case this won't work, because 'roller' bearings had no spacer. And in any case - I would think it's unlikely to have been exactly the correct thickness for the new bearings - even if you did have one !!
I agree with the last part above - you can't 'take up wear' by re-shimming/machining the spacer etc - but it must be set correctly for the new bearings - and often this requires some adjustment of the spacer to get it exactly right.

mini im having probs with the hub bearings is a 87 mayfair,i've looked at lots of exploded diagrams in the haynes and such like and cant see any other spacers other than whats already part of the bearing be it roller or ball?i'll get some pic's later to try and show what i mean.cheers for all the input so far from bmcecosse and dan

[guywithvan]

i dont want to come across as a complete numpty!lol but i've taken some pic's to explain my problems,i've done wheel bearings on motorbikes no probs now this is confusing me and it's sooo simple.

right i've double checked the vague haynes manual and i've done exactly as prescribed,i havent removed any spacer from between the old bearings,and no spacer supplied with the new ones.



if the small pic's are clear enough this is the bearing number of the new one's,same for both bearings supplied



thats what i recieved in kit per side from minisport
-grease
-2x taper roller bearings
-seal
-spit pin

all good right?



offered up new bearings to "eye" them up look the same me thinks



above pic is measurement of old ball bearing races,the new roller ones are more bang on 20mm so a nats willy between them going by cheap vernier caliper



inside of hub i havent fitted yet,i drifted the inner races upto the centre with the groove in(im not good with technical terms!)and made sure they were fully home,going by my measurements the bearings are not sided as both the same.going by minisports site the bearings i got "GHK1548" should be a direct replacement for the old ball bearings?

spoke to my dad earlier and he said that tapered roller bearings dont have to be as tight as ball bearings?so would that mean not 81nm as stated in the haynes?

edit- http://www.minisport...fo_GHK1140.html thats the fronts including spacer's

http://www.minisport...fo_GHK1548.html rears no extra spacers?

Edited by guywithvan, 04 July 2009 - 06:12 PM.

[guywithvan]

anyone add to this?,im looking to get my radius arms fully built up ready to go on once boot floor is painted,sorry if hassling just simple job gone complicated