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Safe Maximum Rpm On A Small Bore?


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#16 MRA

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 12:46 AM

Hi everyone,

As I'm getting my 1973 Mini soon, :wub: and intend to do a couple of reversible modifications, such as a Stage one kit, and possibly a camshaft, this got me wondering, what kind of RPM will a A-Series internals take? If I were to stick a camshaft and maybe double valve springs in it, what would be a safe maximum RPM?

I know that most A-Series will get valve float at around 5500-6000RPM, but what will the crankshaft and 'rods take? :unsure:

Just because if that will increase the maximum RPM it might be worth doing, as it will increase it's flexibility when hustling along backroads, and will mean in gear speeds are better.

So, what I'm basically asking for here is a safe maximum RPM stock, with a cam, and with double valve springs and a cam.

He'll not be thrashed, but it's nice knowing it's there occasionally, and letting that rorty old 5 port sing! :P

Thanks in advance.

Jack

 

Why would you want double valve springs ?  what you need is valve springs that are suitable to the engine spec, ie if you never intend to take it above 5000 then singles will probably do quite nicely.  The engine revs and camshaft lobe form dictate the spring poundage.  double valve springs if required are fair enough, but if not required they are just causing more wear and sapping power !



#17 MRA

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 12:48 AM

Hi,

Thanks for the advice, so by a well sorted head, would something like a ported 12G295 head be suitable?

The overall spec would be, HS4 SU, suitable needle, K&N element air filter, Torque-master inlet, Maniflow Cooper freeflow exhaust manifold, Fast or Mild-road cam, Double valve springs and then, if suitable, the 12G295 head.

Would that be a good set-up?

Thanks.

 

Speak to Keith at Calver special tuning as he has some nice 998 heads available.



#18 MRA

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 12:50 AM

If you modify it to rev higher, and it can be done, you'll lose driveability, ie low down torque and power won't come in till about 3,000 so you'll have to rev it all the time to make it "Go". The stage one kit will give you most BHP for the least money, and you will notice a difference

 

I think you will find turbo power is the cheapest most power for your money, 998 with 200 bhp road drivable and reliable too.



#19 Batmini

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 07:45 AM

What is the obsession with high revs? Yes i'm sure you can make the engine rev to 8000 rpm but depending on the cam/head spec, you may well find the torque and bhp drop off at 6000

#20 ACDodd

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 09:15 AM

If you want an engine to last, you keep the revs down not increase them.

Ac

#21 MRA

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 02:15 PM

The op's question was "what is the maximum safe revs" he also made the statement "he'll not be thrashed" which I would guess the OP was referring to the engine not the engine builder lol.... 

 

Of course if the engine is red lined 24x7 it won't last too long, but then no engine will, however if you build in reliability for it to rev higher then it will last longer if then driven to the 90% (which is where most car manufacturers base their warranty claims)

 

If you remove the issues, ie fatigue by polishing, steel shot blasting etc the parts that will fail such as conrods then you will increase reliability, we all know that if the engine sits in the garage never driven it will last for years, so as in all Engineering there is a compromise, that compromise is durability/time.

 

In this case I would say the OP wants an engine that he can rev the socks off from time to time, whilst also being able to drive it in town or in a traffic jam without any issues.

 

In my opinion a 266 or a 276 or similar would give the OP what they want, the polished conrods and tuftrided crank would help it to stay together, duplex timing helps the ignition and cam timing to stay "in tune" for longer and a half decent head, the head would give the most benefits for power output as most 998 heads are pretty poor at flowing, coupled with 1.3:1 rockers and if money can be stretched an ECU in place of the dizzy would increase the output,

 

But a few other things to factor in, 1) you will need a rolling road calibration to get the most out of all aspects, ie power, reliability etc.  2) don't forget insurance costs 3) Suspension and brakes to cope with the increase in power.

 

Also to note, light weight components can add reliability, ie a lighter flywheel hanging on the crank tail will reduce the wear on the crank bearings and reduce the fatigue on the crank itself, but like all things Engineering it is a compromise if you take it too far then expect things to fall apart at speed as they will.

Also whilst a lightweight flywheel will rev up quicker, (this is self diminishing as you go up through the gears) it has a down side, that if your gearing is high and / or your torque is low then on a long up hill road you may find that at speed you start to slow down, lose momentum due to the mass of the flywheel not being able to store enough kinetic energy.

You can up the torque or increase the mass of the flywheel or live with it, on a typical 1380 turbo on a higher FDR there isn't a flywheel that is light enough that you need to worry, sure you can always find a steep enough hill, as your 998 is the opposite end of the power spectrum I would advise only going to a super light flywheel assembly if you are not bothered by hills.



#22 Calum_Ward

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 02:48 PM

Calum,

 

From the picture it looks a lot more like an A+ (post 1980) engine than a 1974 unit. The rockers are definitely A+, and the head studs also look like A+ but need a clearer picture to be sure. What's the prefix on the engine number?

Yeah i was thinking that because it had a metro starter motor and fuel pump but the block and number all point to a pre-verto engine. So my best guess is that someone botched it up together after it had a smash... :ohno: The engine number is 99h791 p7407730 not sure about the last lot of numbers and and letters but as far as i know it's a cold climate 998cc dished piston engine but for some reason looking up the first lot of numbers leads to a 1974-80 block and it has sintered iron valve guides.

Thanks!


Edited by Calum_Ward, 09 April 2016 - 02:49 PM.


#23 MRA

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 03:06 PM

Engine numbers on blocks are easily swapped over.



#24 Ethel

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 04:04 PM

The dizzy clamp and alternator bracket are reliable clues to the block; any mix of bits is possible on an old Min. There were high and low compression versions of the A+, no way to tell 'em apart from the outside.



#25 MRA

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 04:06 PM

The dizzy clamp and alternator bracket are reliable clues to the block; any mix of bits is possible on an old Min. There were high and low compression versions of the A+, no way to tell 'em apart from the outside.

 

Except with a compression tester ;-) lol  .. (just my little joke)


Edited by MRA, 09 April 2016 - 04:08 PM.


#26 Ethel

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 04:12 PM

...because when you find out it's pants you'll be taking the head off you mean???  :P



#27 MRA

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 04:56 PM

...because when you find out it's pants you'll be taking the head off you mean???  :P

 

Or throwing the compression tester away thinking it's failed :-)



#28 KernowCooper

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 05:08 PM

Or you could always consider the Pub Engine spec build, they always produce far more power then any other, rev to 8000rpm with ease, idle over like a swiss clock and perfect road manners in town, and always do 50+mpg ;D



#29 MRA

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Posted 09 April 2016 - 05:19 PM

Or you could always consider the Pub Engine spec build, they always produce far more power then any other, rev to 8000rpm with ease, idle over like a swiss clock and perfect road manners in town, and always do 50+mpg ;D

 

only if painted RED !!






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