15 replies to this topic

[vaughn1]

hi all, i have a question i hope some of you can help me with.

i have decided that i am going to run the fuel line, brake line and the power line on the inside of the car and i am wondering if people have already done this and also how it was done?

would like to know how people have secured them, which direction people have went with them and what was used etc.

pics would be very helpful

also does the fuel line have to be solid or can a full length rubber pipe be used?

thanks in advance for any replies

[GreenMini17]

You will probably need new copper pipe (or goodridge 600 series) new fuel line and new battery cable. I would run all of it down the passenger side (by the door) using some nice ally clips that you can rivet to the floor ( I got mine from Merlin Motorsport)

I am going through this process at the moment. I would use solid pipe through the car as normal rubber or braided rubber will give off a fuel smell and leave you with a headache!!

I'm using Goodridge hardline in -6 which is very nice. You can also use Goodridge 811 series hose, this is PTFE lined rather than rubber (its expensive though!)

[haggz]

have run my power lead through the inside. a mate of mine got me some cable called hi-flex, it is very flexable so feeding round things was okay. it is used on buses (battery to starter) so more than good enough for my car. not sure how much it costs or lenght you would have to buy. it has a slightly smaller diameter but can carry a greater load without getting warm.

hope this helps.

[Cooperman]

All good so far. But never, ever, run rubber petrol pipe inside the car - that's so dangerous!. Use a proper length of metal fuel pipe and make sure that there are no joins inside the passenger area. Proper fuel pipe is quite easy to bend. I always run mine down the middle of the car and use 'P-clips' to fix it to the floor. The battery lead I run on the RH side of the tunnel and the brake and petrol on the LHS.

[AVV IT]

I've said this before and some people will still disagree with me, but don't ever put any sort of fuel line inside the car (plastic, rubber or metal). It's fine for track cars (where the emergency services are on hand and there are always guys with fire extinguishers just a few yards away, but in a road car it's a completely unnecesary risk). In a road traffic collison even a metal fuel pipe can fracture and fuel can spill out (I work in the emergency services & have seen this happen a number of times). When the fuel line is outside the car and draining away from the occupants a fuel leak is dangerous enough, but when it's inside the car and draining towards the occupants its a whole lot worse. Worse still if its a roll over collision and even worse than that if the occupants are trapped. When a vehicle goes up in flames it is a lethal enough scenario for the occupants as it is, without being them also sitting in or being covered in petrol as well!

The fuel line is on the outside of the car for a reason, I would suggest that you keep it there!

[Cooperman]

They have to be inside on rally cars or they would just get ripped right off on the first rough road. I always run mine down the central tunnel to prevent damage in side impact collisions or crashes. In 49 years of rallying I've never seen a properly installed internal metal fuel pipe fracture in a Mini, even in really big crashes.

[davejf]

Heres where i've run mine, as said i wouldn't run lines down the side due to side impacts.
Dave

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[AVV IT]

They have to be inside on rally cars or they would just get ripped right off on the first rough road. I always run mine down the central tunnel to prevent damage in side impact collisions or crashes. In 49 years of rallying I've never seen a properly installed internal metal fuel pipe fracture in a Mini, even in really big crashes.

Track car or rally car there is clearly a need for an internal fuel line in motorsport. But motorsport is a very different environment to the road, with different hazards and very different safety measures. In a road car there is no such need for an internal fuel line and therefore to bring it inside the car and closer to the occupants it is an unnecessary risk, regardless of how indestructible you may consider it to be. I can't comment on rallying collisions as I have no experience of them, but in road traffic collisions I have seen not only fractured metal fuel lines, but floor pans ripped away, chassis's twisted through 90 degrees and secured structures inside vehicles displaced by several feet (more than enough force to fracture the very strongest of small steel pipes).

Those people who fit internal fuel lines in road cars should maybe consider that they are not only exposing themselves to a completely unnecessary risk, but also exposing those of us who have to pull them out of the wreckage when it all goes wrong!

[mk3cortina]

i do agree with AVV IT on this one, keep the flammable stuff on the outside of your tin box, not in it with you. im going to run everything but the fuel line inside.

[Stevee]

i agree aswell run fuel under the car just like make a strip of metal to protect it (Y)

[BenH]

Heres mini still in progress
actually had a look at DaveJFs before i started mine



battery starter cable off ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.u...e=STRK:MEWNX:IT

p clips obviously different sizes for fuel lines/battery cable/brake pipes
http://cgi.ebay.co.u...e=STRK:MEWNX:IT

My car will be used alot on the road in the summer, Not sure if id do it if it was a high mileage everyday car.
im not saying its a good or bad idea, iv done it myself but thats because i want to take it on the track.

as Dave said definatly run them down the centre
Dont use rubber just use copper, rubber is just an accident waiting to happen
Consider your passengers safety

[Cooperman]

I don't know how many people know this, but in crashes when fire results the majority of conflagrations are caused by hydraulic fluid spraying onto hot manifolds under pressure. Petrol is rarely the cause unless it sprays directly onto a sparking area or, possibly, onto a red-hot exhaust manifold.
So, if an external fuel line is broken off, it is far more likely that petrol will get onto the exhaust as not many exhausts run inside the car. I always run my petrol lines inside and have done since I started rallying back in 1960. My background is in aviation, where safety is far more considered than in automotive engineering.
Rallies are, or used to be, long distance events with a lot of quick road driving. There has never, to my knowledge, been an accident where death or injury has happened due to failure in a crash-case of a properly installed (i.e. in acordance with FIA requirements) internal fuel line. In a crash where the basic structure is significantly deformed, the main risk is the G-force. The cause of a fire is then more likely to be broken hydraulic lines in the engine bay and fuel feed lines adjacent to the engine.
The regulations for motorsport, including long-distance rallies are clear on how internal fuel pipes are to be safely installed.

[Wil_h]

The reality is that no-one has the answer. Yes AVV IT you may have seen lots of accidents where the fuel line is broken, but these were all on the outside, would they have survived on the inside? There is no answer to this, as no car has lines on the inside and outside. If the car is so damaged that is could be shown that the internal lines will have broken, I'd suggest that the any leak from pipes on the outside will find their way insaide anyway.

Cooperman is right that the combustion point of fuel is high compared to hydraulic fluid and is more likely to cause a fire (this is not to be confused by the spark point). I run braided fuel lines as well as brake and pow on the inside of my racer, but all my road cars have everything external. This is mainly because the risk of peoples feet damaging stuff is higher than any likely damage on the outside. Also with a car with a proper interior I don't want it ruined with even a minor leak.

Every accident is different and there is no actual evidence (other than anacdotal) to support either argument as a safety issue. But common sense says if you do run them inside, avoid joints where you can (non in fuel lines) and run them down the middle not the sill.

[Dan]

I'd have to agree that the risk of people or luggage damaging the soft copper fuel line would be of more concern to me than anything else in a road car. My wife is a Paramedic and I also agree that anything that makes an accident more hazardous to rescue workers, who choose to put themselves in harms way to get you out of what is usually down to your own stupidity, is a terrible liberty to take. For the same reasons I seriously disagree with the use of half prepared. (as in unpadded, standard seats, no harnesses) roll cages or style cages of any kind in a car or the use of aviation type searbelts.

i do agree with AVV IT on this one, keep the flammable stuff on the outside of your tin box, not in it with you. im going to run everything but the fuel line inside.

Err, you know brake fluid is made from oil right? And PVC insulation is pretty flammable too.

[Cooperman]

In fact the FIA/MSA regulations for fuel lines inside competition cars state that the pipes must be continuousw metal pipes or continuous braided and reinforced pipe with no joins of any sort inside the passenger compartment. It also states that the fuel pipes shall be firmly fixed in place and must be 'protected'. I put aluminium capping over mine, pop-rivetted in place, in all vulnerable places.