23 replies to this topic

[SolarB]

I’ve been thinking about a boot mounted reverse light for a while (the ones that look similar to a headlight) but unfortunately the common opinion seems to be that they are illegal. I eventually had a read through the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations this evening and for a car first used before 1st April ’86 a boot mounted headlight style lamp would appear to be legal.

 The_Road_Vehicles_Lighting_Regulations_1989_Schedule_14.jpg   410.82K   71 downloads
The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989
SCHEDULE 14. Requirements relating to optional reversing lamps (Regulation 20)

Now, if I’ve interpreted the regulations correctly, for my ’71 Mini there are no requirements for position, angle, size, or intensity and I can either wire it to the reverse switch, or switch it independently as long as it has a tell-tail indicator. Importantly, there is also no requirement for markings so I can use any lamp (including a non marked headlamp).

The only applicable requirements for my car are that it should be white, shine to the rear and the total wattage of any one lamp should not exceed 24 watts. Now 24 watts from a filament lamp doesn’t give a lot of light, but as a filament lamp is not specified I can legally use an LED that does not consume more than 24 watts. This should be bright enough, the only problem I can see is getting an LED to work with a large reflector but a smaller sub-reflector mounted within the headlamp would solve my problem here.

So all you clever people out there, have I got it wrong, or is my idea legal?

[Dan]

Technically no. Under the regulations (the ones applying to your car), lamp does indeed mean filament lamp. There was no such thing as an LED then and the regulations do state filament lamp in the definitions section I believe, although I may be wrong. There are no filament bulbs that fit the conventionally used boot mounted lamp which are that low in power. Oddly you're not the first to come up with this!

The lamp can be fitted as a 'work lamp' providing you can proove that you have a need for a work lamp at the rear. It can't be wired to an automatic reverse switch though, it needs a dash switch and a tell-tale and then it's legal. Providing you don't use it for reversing, which would be illegal.

[tomgale]

so can you have a 24 watt filiment lamp wired to a reverse switch? as a proper reversing light?

[SolarB]

Thanks for the opinions Dan but as far as I can see there's no legal reason why this can't be done on an older car.
If may cover your points one at a time:

Technically no. Under the regulations (the ones applying to your car), lamp does indeed mean filament lamp.

While reading the regulations it is clear that the definition and use of the words lamp and filament lamp are quite distinct and are not interchangeable. In the regulations Lamp is the whole lamp assembly (glass, reflector, mount), while filament lamp is the bulb.

There was no such thing as an LED then and the regulations do state filament lamp in the definitions section I believe, although I may be wrong.

Filament lamp isn't in the definitions. I believe the wording filament lamp was originally required and used to define the difference between filament bulbs and the old oil or acetyelene lights. I know LEDs weren't particularly common in 1989 when these regulation were last ammended but as a filament lamp isn't specifically required in a reverse light other light sources are permissable. According to these regulations the only light on a car that is required to be a filament lamp is the dipped headlamp.

There are no filament bulbs that fit the conventionally used boot mounted lamp which are that low in power. Oddly you're not the first to come up with this!

Ah ha. That's why a high power LED seamed like a good idea. 24 watts from a filament lamp is pretty dim, while an LED at 24 watts is pretty bright.

The lamp can be fitted as a 'work lamp' providing you can proove that you have a need for a work lamp at the rear.

A work lamp can be fitted to the boot lid, or pretty much anywhere else, but they are separate entities and are covered elsewhere in the regulations. Also, as far as I'm aware, you don't have to prove that you need a work lamp. As long as it's fitted in a safe manner and wired correctly you're ok. Fitting a reverse lamp and then claiming it's a work lamp is not what I'm trying to do.

After a good re-read of the regulations I still believe this is legal.



Quick edit for spelling.

Edited by SolarB, 03 November 2010 - 09:03 PM.

[mab01uk]

I think many are fitted to Mini's just for the 1960's rally 'period look' and not actually wired up?

[SolarB]

I think many are fitted to Mini's just for the 1960's rally 'period look' and not actually wired up?

I'm sure some are, and many more are wired up and used every day without problems.

My car doesn't have a reverse light but it needs one because I live where there aren't any street lights, and I like to let other road users know I'm moving backwards. I'm not a fan of the under bumper ones but I was resigned to getting one because I always believed the boot mounted ones were illegal, but it looks like they are allowed for pre 1st April '86 cars

[Cooperman]

I've been using the Lucas 5" flush-mounted fog-light on the boot lid as a reversing light on many real rally Minis since about 1963 and have never, ever had any problems. I wire it through a normal toggle switch with a warning light on the drivers instrument panel and use a standard fog light bulb.

[SolarB]

I've been using the Lucas 5" flush-mounted fog-light on the boot lid as a reversing light on many real rally Minis since about 1963 and have never, ever had any problems. I wire it through a normal toggle switch with a warning light on the drivers instrument panel and use a standard fog light bulb.

What wattage is the bulb, and do you find it bright enough?

[Cooperman]

I've been using the Lucas 5" flush-mounted fog-light on the boot lid as a reversing light on many real rally Minis since about 1963 and have never, ever had any problems. I wire it through a normal toggle switch with a warning light on the drivers instrument panel and use a standard fog light bulb.

What wattage is the bulb, and do you find it bright enough?

It's the standard fog/spot tungsten bulb, so it's 55 w or 60 w. When I need to reverse on a rally (navigator overshot the junction, usually!) it is fine. I don't usually use it apart from on rallies as I don't use the car that much. It is probably a bit much for a normal road car really.

[AVV IT]

Sorry if I'm being a bit thick here, but does all this therefore mean that it would also be illegal on a newer car (post 1986)?

[hoppinmad]

i had an old lucas spot light on the boot lid of my 1988 wired into original tail light loom and never had any issues with MOTs or the police.
Ty

[Cooperman]

Sorry if I'm being a bit thick here, but does all this therefore mean that it would also be illegal on a newer car (post 1986)?

I expect so, but then, so is exceeding the speed limit and I do that most days when I go out in my BMW!

[1984mini25]

i had an old lucas spot light on the boot lid of my 1988 wired into original tail light loom and never had any issues with MOTs or the police.

You DON’T need a reversing light or lights for the mot, they just aren’t required/tested regardless of age of vehicle.

[camp freddy]

look down here
http://www.motester....atIsTested.aspx


reverse light not listed

Edited by camp freddy, 06 November 2010 - 05:44 PM.

[Cooperman]

i had an old lucas spot light on the boot lid of my 1988 wired into original tail light loom and never had any issues with MOTs or the police.

You DON'T need a reversing light or lights for the mot, they just aren't required/tested regardless of age of vehicle.

I think he means he had no problem even though the rev. light was technically illegal.