21 replies to this topic

[Tomf]

Well i sold a mini a while back, and i have just recieved a letter today talling me that im getting fined for not notifying the DVLA of ownership change.

So i phoned the number on the letter today and the lady told me on the phone that i should have recieved a confirmation letter after 4 weeks, and if i didnt then i should have called up to ask why.

So where do i stand now? I sent the logbook off with a 1st class stamp, so i dont have any tracking info.

The lady on the phone besictally told me the only way i will get the case closed is pay the fine or produce the letter that i was supposed to recieve after 4 weeks, but i never recieved this so i cant do this.

It just feels like they are trying to con me out of money now, this is just silly, i follow the rules the set yet they still try and fine me!!!

[Yoda]

My wife had exactly the same issue, and i am sure that a lot of people are having this problem. We sent off the V5, no letter was received by us, we called to confirm the sale and they sent us a form to fill in with the new keepers details which we returned. then we received a letter asking to pay a 30 quid fine. upon contacting them, the fine had doubled in price and Cathryn was served with a court summons. I then took the bull by the horns and went to the local DVLA office and stood my ground. after some negotiations, the summons was dropped but only after we paid the original 30 quid fine. I will from this point on, either take the V5 to the local office and demand a reciept, or mail to swansea with a recorded delivery.

I am of the opinion, that the DVLA now have a superb, no getout clause means of making money from us as car owners.

I wonder how many people are too scared to stand up and be counted and just pay the fine without question.

Maybe a petition should be started and get all other car clubs and forums to join in and deliver said petition to the right government body.

[Gaffer]

I think i have heard on here before that it is up to the DVLA to prove that you didn't send the letter off rather than you proving that you did. I'm sure bungle posted up something like this a few months ago from a v'dub site

[Yoda]

I think that maybe this should be taken as a warning.

If you sell a vehicle, make sure to note the date that you sent the V5 to DVLA and contact them exactly four weeks from the sale if you have not received the confirmation letter.

I will also now make a point of either photocopying the V5 before sending it off, or at least keep a separate note of the purchasers details or both. this was the hardest thing to find when fighting our case because the new keeper takes the green slip and you send the V5 to DVLA, therefore you have NO RECORD of the sale to fight with. Luckily the buyer paid with Paypal and i managed to drag the information from the Paypal archives of the buyers name, address and contact details, it also proved the date of sale which gave the DVLA no leg to stand on, but i still had to pay the original fine.

THIS IS ALL WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to shout, but thats how i feel about modern governmental society. They are quick to take your money, but when you need info or help, where are they?????????????

Edited by customcart, 12 November 2010 - 11:43 AM.

[Yoda]

I think i have heard on here before that it is up to the DVLA to prove that you didn't send the letter off rather than you proving that you did. I'm sure bungle posted up something like this a few months ago from a v'dub site

I agree, and that is the stand that i took, i was more than prepared to take this to court, but as it was all in my wifes name, she was scared of the word "court" and i could not legally fight the case for her, neither, being unemployed, could i afford legal representaion to do so. so we very begrudgingly payed the thirty quid. this all took over 10 months to get sorted and we still lost.


Listen up everyone and play by their rules or you will lose out big time.

Edited by customcart, 12 November 2010 - 11:45 AM.

[ShoutforJoy]

In addition to the sound advice that customcart has made I would recommend that you get a "Certificate of Posting" from your post office. It doesn't cost anything (other than your 1st or 2nd class stamp) and is accepted as proof that you handed the item over to Royal Mail for delivery.

[Yoda]

I would recommend that you get a "Certificate of Posting" from your post office. It doesn't cost anything (other than your 1st or 2nd class stamp) and is accepted as proof that you handed the item over to Royal Mail for delivery.

Very good point! and its another part of the "papertrail" that is necessary in this type of situation. I now have a large folder (as we own quite a few vehicles) and this contains a complete paper record of each vehicle and its documents etc just for this reason. It also makes stuff easy to find at Tax and MOT time too

[davidv]

Do you have a signed receipt with time and date of sale if so send it them.Some things do get lost in post and that is not your fault.I had a row with them when they tried to tell me i was a car dealer,thats a big fine.I proved i was not.They just try it on.Good luck.

[midridge2]

as a side note, 3 months ago i re sorned my scooter and recieved the new sorn notice, a month later i sold it and sent of the change of ownership and recieved a letter saying it had been done, one month later i recieved a new sorn notice.
do dvla know what they are doing and were is all those missing change of ownership notices going to??? is the post office loosing them??

[minili]

I hate to pee on the bonfire as such, but I'm pretty sure it's YOUR responsibility to ensure that ownership is correctly changed.

Why didn't the OP query non-receipt of confirmation? Always check! Do you want the buyers fines??

I am concered about this for cars I have sold, so every time I sell a car I copy the V5 before sending it so that I have the details of the buyer and proof it's been filled out, send it via normal post but obtain a receipt of posting, and once in the past called the DVLA to check they had received a V5 when I hadn't had a letter back (as it goes it was slow post and it arrived a day or two later).

Quite a few years ago they changed the system such that it was the sellers responsibility, that is why they're coming after you now, obviously the buyer has reported the fact that they haven't had their V5.

It's rubbish but that's the way it is, always check it's been transferred! As someone else said, best to take this as a warning, and ALWAYS ensure you get the paperwork to prove the sale in future.

[Puddings]

Ah i think i need to ring them as i haven't had a letter about my mini i sold to grease monkey about a month ago i think, does anybody have the number i need?

[Bungle]

i have posted up links for this before i will go away and see if i can find the topic

it comes down to the DVLA having to prove that you didn't post it

[Bungle]

Below are some legal points of which I have followed.

The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002

“Change of keeper: registration document issued in Great Britain on or after 24th March 1997 and the new keeper not a vehicle trader
22. (2) The registered keeper of the vehicle -
(a) if the registration document issued in respect of the vehicle is in his possession, shall deliver to the new keeper that part of the document marked as the part which is to be given to the new keeper; and

(b) shall forthwith deliver the remainder of the registration document to the Secretary of State, duly completed to include the following -
(i) the name and address of the new keeper;

(ii) the date on which the vehicle was sold or transferred to the new keeper;

(iii) a declaration signed by the registered keeper that the details given in accordance with paragraph (i) are correct to the best of his knowledge and that the details given in accordance with paragraph (ii) are correct; and

(iv) a declaration signed by the new keeper that the details given in accordance with paragraphs (i) and (ii) are correct.”
Interpretation Act 1978

7 References to service by post

“Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.”


As I previously stated I used 1st class post to “deliver” the V5 document which complies with both regulations above.


The DVLA states that I have no defence because I did not receive confirmation from them. This confirmation letter from the DVLA is not a legal requirement!


As stated in Human Rights Act 1998, Schedule 1, Article 6, section 2

“Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law. "



I have no proof of posting the V5 document because I have never done so before. I also believe that I should not have to prove that I posted the V5 document and if this matter does indeed go to court it should be down to the DVLA to prove that I did not.


I look forward to receiving your comments on this matter.

topic clicky link

it's not a load of bull it's worked for people on VZI

[Yoda]

You will find the number on the V5 that you put in the post after you took a photocopy!

What! you didnt take a copy? how do you find the number now?

Do you see my point here from my previous postings. if you dont read the small print, you are stuffed.


Luckily most people have more than one car, so read the V5 from front to back and you will find all the info you need plus the contact details required.



by the way, the number is 0870 240 0010

[Yoda]

You beat me there Bungle, i was looking for that post to link to earlier!

this will save having to pay the fine, i commend you. I have had various encounters with the powers that be in the last year or so and will now try anything to get my own back. Its a shame i did not have this info in time for my wifes situation.