18 replies to this topic

[Hughieboy]

~~~~~Please delete this text before posting the topic~~~~~~
Please give your topic a title that quickly describes your problem. Just putting 'Help my Mini doesn't work' is useless to anyone trying to help.
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Model:Mk3 Cooper S
Year: 1971
Description of problem (please be as in depth as possible): I have a re-shelled Mk3 Cooper S. The engine had the number plate removed when it was refurbished/painted, by previous owner, and not replaced. I have carried out some research and believe the engine to be a 'solid walled block with dynamo and 11 stud head'' (no tappet chest covers) type 1275 S. Are there any other identification marks/features such as mould numbers to postively ID this engine? Also the head please? Log book engine ID number begins 12H397. Thanks



Any non-standard parts that might be involved with the problem?

[MiniLuke]

ID matrix

thought they had tappet chest covers to be honest!

[Hughieboy]

ID matrix

thought they had tappet chest covers to be honest!

Not according to several different compiled lists (Minimania) of Classic Cooper S engine numbers. Later units were, apparently, solid wall blocks.

[MiniLuke]

ID matrix

thought they had tappet chest covers to be honest!

Not according to several different compiled lists (Minimania) of Classic Cooper S engine numbers. Later units were, apparently, solid wall blocks.

Oh OK.

[MiniLuke]

THIS IS YOUR CAR - ISN'T IT???

[bmcecosse]

If it's been reshelled with a NEW shell then it should still qualfy as a 'Cooper S' - however if a 'used' shell was used then it's strictly illegal to keep the original ID. A shell once registered on a car retains that ID for ever.........so unless the shell was 'new' your car should have the ID of the shell it now sports....
A Cooper S of that era would indeed have the solid block but should still have the EN40B crank and Cooper S rods inside. The gearbox should have Hardy Spicer output shafts and be 'remote control' change - not rod change, - and of course the head should be 10 bolt + 1 screw type. It's a dead give-away if someone has fitted 11 studs to the block !

Edited by bmcecosse, 22 January 2011 - 07:21 PM.

[bmcecosse]

Not at first - but I agree -when the EN40B cranks ran out they did use the lesser crank, unfortunately.

[Hughieboy]

Not at first - but I agree -when the EN40B cranks ran out they did use the lesser crank, unfortunately.

Thanks for the info so far. Just to stop any cofusion the blue Mini in some replies is NOT mine - not sure how it's got on here. The info on the ctank shaft number is interesting but, unless I can get to it without stripping the engine, it's not what I was looking for but, as I said, thank you for posting anyway.
What I was looking for was info on any external identification marks or features, on either block or head, which will positively identify my engine as genuine Cooper S or not without having to remove it from the car. Thanks.

With regards to my Cooper S being re-shelled - I was already aware of the in & outs of the sort of problems that can arise from this but thank you anyway for this info but I'm looking for info on engine ID more that re-shellling.

[bmcecosse]

It is certainly a shell from ~ 1971. I believe the S shells had welded in brackets to carry the boot floor board - does your shell have these ? And as earlier - the head should be held down by 10 studs/nuts - and one smaller diameter special bolt - just behind the thermostat housing.

Edited by bmcecosse, 23 January 2011 - 01:45 PM.

[Guess-Works.com]

Or...

If the car is a genuine S, then apply for a heritage certificate which will come with all the details of the car as originally supplied, including the engine number...

You can always then get a plate made up and attach to the block...

but, I don't believe you will be able to identify any A series solid walled block from any other of the same period, be it GT, 1300 GT, Austin 1300 or cooper S ( I would still debate weather on not this is a Cooper S engine in the true sense of the description, other than it may have been put in a cooper S originally, it certainly will not be to the same spec' as the tappet chested cooper S engines )

I know some early GT engines had the 1275 tag riveted to the back of the block and likewise, it should not have the mechanical petrol pump hole machined...

The crank and rods are usually the key, for it to be a cooper S it should be running 1.625" big ends, so for this it MUST have an AEG* crank.

[Hughieboy]

Or...

If the car is a genuine S, then apply for a heritage certificate which will come with all the details of the car as originally supplied, including the engine number...

You can always then get a plate made up and attach to the block...

but, I don't believe you will be able to identify any A series solid walled block from any other of the same period, be it GT, 1300 GT, Austin 1300 or cooper S ( I would still debate weather on not this is a Cooper S engine in the true sense of the description, other than it may have been put in a cooper S originally, it certainly will not be to the same spec' as the tappet chested cooper S engines )

I know some early GT engines had the 1275 tag riveted to the back of the block and likewise, it should not have the mechanical petrol pump hole machined...

The crank and rods are usually the key, for it to be a cooper S it should be running 1.625" big ends, so for this it MUST have an AEG* crank.

Thanks for this info, much appreciated. Just checked on top of the block, by the thermostat housing. There is a number stamped into the head -12 G 1805. Any thoughts on this?

[Guess-Works.com]

12G1805 (12G940 casting) is a cooper S head, however was also fitted to a number of other engines which sported the 10/1 stud arrangement, being the 1300GT and MG1300, which are the nearest engine as standard which you'll get to a cooper S without it being a cooper S, but they ran 1.750" big ends and GT rods and a 12G* crank

Edited by Guess-Works.com, 23 January 2011 - 02:28 PM.

[MiniLuke]

Not at first - but I agree -when the EN40B cranks ran out they did use the lesser crank, unfortunately.

Thanks for the info so far. Just to stop any cofusion the blue Mini in some replies is NOT mine - not sure how it's got on here. The info on the ctank shaft number is interesting but, unless I can get to it without stripping the engine, it's not what I was looking for but, as I said, thank you for posting anyway.
What I was looking for was info on any external identification marks or features, on either block or head, which will positively identify my engine as genuine Cooper S or not without having to remove it from the car. Thanks.

With regards to my Cooper S being re-shelled - I was already aware of the in & outs of the sort of problems that can arise from this but thank you anyway for this info but I'm looking for info on engine ID more that re-shellling.

No, the blue mini is mine in my signature , the post was a link CLICK ON THIS!.

It's a red mini in Pembrokeshire. it must be yours. Worth a punt at £1600 maybe if it turns out to be a gen s.......

EDIT: although not sure why it's thought to have been reshelled, there are boot board brackets there.

Edited by MiniLuke, 23 January 2011 - 02:30 PM.

[Hughieboy]

12G1805 (12G940 casting) is a cooper S head, however was also fitted to a number of other engines which sported the 10/1 stud arrangement, being the 1300GT and MG1300, which are the nearest engine as standard which you'll get to a cooper S without it being a cooper S, but they ran 1.750" big ends and GT rods and a 12G* crank

Forgot to add that below the 12G1805 there is also a much larger K stamped into the head too - any significance?

[mk3 Cooper S]

Interesting car in lots of ways having some of the right bits and some of the wrong bits.

1275gt interior
Innocenti doors
Dry suspension

Shell looks like it used to be blue?

Either way with an unproven history , non matching numbers and the reshell looking pretty rotten it is about on the money at 2K now IMO.