17 replies to this topic

[cooper_shaz]

Hey all

Replaced the ball joints on the white mini 2 days ago and it felt a little tight but
after a few miles it felt a little easier (but was still tight).

Had a word with the MOT tester and he said no problem they will free up.

Went back in the evening and the car failed the MOT for the ball joints being too tight.

I have put the shims in there all 3 of them on each joint

But it still feels tight, am i needing extra shims or is there something not right ?

I slackened them a little more but it seems anything more than a nip up of the large nut tightens them to the point the steering becomes stiff, when you drive round a corner the steering wheel does not return to the centre without a bit of force.. fully greased and no parts missing...

any slacker the large nut turns with the steering.. possibility of working loose, so not keen on that..

I suspect i need more shims, but looking for any advice you can give..

cheers
shaz

[The Matt]

It does sound like it is a shim thing. Did you 'lap' the new pins in?

I read an article in MiniMag about fitting new ballpin, it is something I have never done but here goes:

Before fitting the new pin to the car, lap them into the threaded cup. To do this, pass the ball pin through the cup (as it would be on the car) grip the cup in a vice, then grip the pin in a drill. Using the drill you can remove any tight spots on the assembly by gently lapping it in! :erm:

Again, I have never done that myself, but I have fitted ball pins to Minis that have had a tight spot after fitting. Maybe worth a try??

[vasi]

I had to put about 5 or 6 shims on the top joint when I replaced mine a couple of weeks back. I kept adding them until it was 'just pinching' when up to torque.
The bottom joint will always feel stiffer because of the spring.

[miniboo]

i had a similar problem shaz.

i just fiddled around with extra shims till they were ok.

but the lapping in thing is rob a good idea.

how does the mot tester test for them being to tight? loose i can understand how but not tight!!

[The Matt]

when you have the vehicle jacked up you can tell if an assembly feels too tight, also at the start of the test when you are in the drivers seat, you test for steering play and feel. :wink:

From a testers point of view it is quite noticable when they are too tight. though sometimes it can be difficult to diagnose which component is too tight (could be the steering rack for example, or a seized track rod end).

[cooper_shaz]

Cheers guys..

I will try lapping them in, and see how it goes.

You can notice the tightness by simply turning the steering.
There were no shims in the old joints and I dont seem to be able to get extra shims..

Probably just end up buying extra ball joints if the lapping does not work..

cheers for the tips guys....

will let you know how i get on..

Shaz

[Jammy]

You can get shims from MiniSpares, and the balljoint kits they sell have spares.

[cooper_shaz]

Cheers Jammy, have just ordered a set, but they wont send them until the 3rd :nugget:

[markrally]

The lapping in thing is definately worth doing but it is easier if the hubs are off the car and in a vice on the bench. IT takes a bit longer to do as you have to strip each one and throughly clean the ball joints and clean the grease holes out (AIRLINE RECOMMENDED) to remove al traces of grinding paste. i used all the shims supplied in the kit plus all the old ones i removed when i sripped the hubs.
My ball joints are now silky smooth and the steering is very light and free now.

Cheers MArk :wales:

[The Matt]

My ball joints are now silky smooth.....

Cheers MArk :wales:

somehow that sounds wrong! :fear:


Yeah, I have never tried the lapping thing, but certainly will do after the response it has had on here. It's a shame all of my ball joints are in good nick at the moment! I'm sure after a few months they'll need doing again!

[markrally]

Well i knew somebody would pick up on that constructive comment!!

Mark :wales:

[andywaller]

if i remember rightly they suggested lapping if the joints are not genuine. as the buget ones are made from poorer quality metal and can have rough areas, the lapping gets rid of this. not much help to you though.

[Sprocket]

Yes

Only ever use genuine ball joints. After all they have been tested for over 45 years and are one of the only things holding the wheel on the car.

Lapping in aftermarket, cheep parts just shows how C**p they actualy are :nugget:

When it comes to suspention, steering and braking components, genuine parts should be used if you value your life.(its my opinion and anyone is quite welcome to comment :tongue: )

Oh and when changing ball joints, always keep the shims off the old ones.

Oh and another thing, it may not be neccisary to replace the ball joints but rather to re shim them :smartass:

Again this is not helping your situation :nugget:

Edited by Mini Sprocket, 30 December 2005 - 08:23 PM.

[Dan]

I have put the shims in there all 3 of them on each joint

This seems to be the root of the problem.
The shims provided aren't a standard amount. There isn't a set amount of shims for each joint, so to say you put all three in each is daft. You have to shim each one individually. You get a selection of shims with the part and there are a few different thicknesses to choose from in the pack. Don't just stick three under each cap, but do them properly and tune each one individually and shim the bottom ones with the springs removed, and then re-fit before final assembly. You haven't put the springs in the top ones have you? That causes tightness.

Lapping of the pins doesn't really do much other than make them last longer before they need rebuilding. And lapping in the ones you have already been using would be pointless as they lap themselves in use after about 3000 miles (which is why they then need re-shimming). The BMC works used to lap the ball joints of the rally cars, not to get any extra performance out of them but to make them ultra reliable in the field. Remember that if you do lap them together it is ultra important that all grinding paste is removed from the joint or it will keep grinding itself in the future. And once they are done, don't mix the parts up. Lapped parts are a matched pair and so you really must keep the cup and pin that are lapped to each other together or it's pointless doing it at all.

You don't have to lap in non genuine balljoints, you simply have to never ever even think about using them. As Sprocket says they are really dodgy. Last summer there were several people on this site who's bottom swivels had snapped in use and it's not pretty. Use genuine.

[nomininolife]

Which company stocks genuine kits? as they all seem to be around the same price, I would expect genuine to be more expensive