23 replies to this topic

[MRA]

I wouldn't use uprated bushes on standard tie bars because they can and do cause the bar to bend this bending will result in cyclic stresses that may eventually lead to failure...

What a load of crap! Thats a sales pitch if I ever heard one

Your entitled to your views, however idiotic they are

My heavy duty tie bars have been out of stock as I too busy doing other parts at the moment

Edited by mra-minis.co.uk, 26 May 2011 - 12:23 PM.

[Spitz]

i use them..what really heavy duty tie bars improve is handling cause you can set castor angle to optimum, obviously, compared with the ridicolous tiny standard bars, there will be a better feel under brake/acceleration due to their improved stability.
Yes it is a very slight difference, and once fitted you NEED to track the car correctly (either castor and toe) asap. Just putting them bolts-on with no setup will be very dangerous..

I recently installed the heavy duty adjustables tie bars.
I've not had time to have them properly set up....but I did take time to set them to exactly the same as standard bar lengths .... 14 5/16" I believe it is.
Car tracks well and feels good. I'm sure even better when I put my new bottom arms on and have things set right.
Trouble is....over here it's near impossible to find someone that has a set-up to accomodate 10" wheels.

[SolarB]

I find it very difficult to believe that there is any detectable difference in driving a car with either type of tie bar. How much does an original bar have to flex to change the suspension geometry enough to be noticeable to the driver?

Changing the bushes to uprated versions, or simply fitting new bushes with a pair of new bars may well be noticeable. Setting the correct camber and castor will usually make a difference, but detecting a difference when swapping original tie bars for uprated ones of the same length and keeping the original bushes?

[1984mini25]

I wouldn't use uprated bushes on standard tie bars because they can and do cause the bar to bend this bending will result in cyclic stresses that may eventually lead to failure...

What a load of crap! Thats a sales pitch if I ever heard one

Your entitled to your views, however idiotic they are

My heavy duty tie bars have been out of stock as I too busy doing other parts at the moment

Plus I’ve been running around poly bushes on standard tie bars (were new at the time of fitting) for the last 6 years and well over 25k worth of abuse. Plus I’ve never had a single problem with them to date and no signs of them ever bending, although you can just as easily bend a standard tie bar with rubber bushes.

[R1minimagic]

Even the standard tie bars are extremely strong if impacted square on (i.e. in compression)

I have broken a mini where this happened, the wheel was pushed back into the inner arch (tie bar mounting on subframe bent right back) and the floor was pushed back at the bottom by about 1 inch, however the impacted tie bar remained completely straight, as good as new in fact!!

Also, think about the tie bars on a F1 car, very strong when the force is transmitted directly down the bar but very weak if transmitted in another direction (they snap quite easily with sideways force)

Edited by R1minimagic, 26 May 2011 - 04:39 PM.

[ukcooper]

Fitted mine because the old ones where bent and for the price for heavey duty one is quite good compaired to other mini bit's.

Ride did feel harsher but used polly bushe's and yes braking did feel better but could have been because it was now all stright and doing what i was supposed to do.

Speed increase humm no but it could have done as it was running stright now.

Edited by ukcooper, 26 May 2011 - 05:24 PM.

[MRA]

Speed increase humm no but it could have done as it was running stright now.

Not sure were speed increase came from, but what I actually meant was better acceleration, not increased acceleration, just better due to less weave...

Anyone who actually knows about steel, will tell you how very rare it is to get steel bar of any diameter that is straight, straight by eye is not straight when it comes to compressive forces acting on the ends, the bars do bend in use, and yes a lot of the issues may well be down to the tie bar bushes as well that I grant you.

On the other hand fitting uprated bushes to standard tiebars is still not a good thing to do, just because someone has done it for 6 years.... doesn't mean anything without the actual mileage and road surfaces being considered....... how many of you have broken a piece of metal simply by bending it back and forth ?? This is exactly what is happening with your tie bars, the more rigid or stiffer the bushes used the more flex the bar has to cope with, more importantly the point at which plastic deformation occurs, this is the point at which fatigue starts to take effect.

How many people have had a broken tie bar due to a fatigue failure...... ?? Who knows ?? anyone ?? and how many of those can no longer answer ?

If the aforementioned tie bars have been fitted for 60 years and not moved then no problem (well except for the added corrosion), however if they are used on a rough road every day then you are playing with fire.... when they eventually fail will you come back on to this forum and tell us ? more importantly would you able to ??

As a sales pitch ??? not at all and all those who actually know me would also say that I would rather see a customer again than in a hole in the ground.

And yes I have had a head on collision with a 40 tonne lorry in a Mini, Police reports were approximate impact speed of 40mph, one uprated tie bar bent like a banana the other side the actual bottom arm was ripped off the subframe tie bar intact, except a little bend.

[Spitz]

I once hit a tree in my 77 MINI....I was too drunk to think about checking the tie bars ( although I think they must have bent as the engine was creeping into the passenger compartment...lol )
( young and stupid )
( not a helpful post I know....sorry )

[bmcecosse]

I've never seen the point of the 'uprated' tiebars - but the adjustability is essential for setting up the geometry nicely. The weak point on the subby is the front tie-bar mount - should be gusseted with good thick steel for anything more than 'shopping'. And the thin bolt that secures the tiebar to the bottom arm is hardly the strongest part of the supension - in fact it's probably the 'weakest link'. Poly bushes were fine for me with standard tiebars - most tiebars get bent by idiots jacking the car up under the tiebar...... Otherwise hard to imagine how a tie bar gets bent since it's heaviest duty (braking) is done while under tension. Only way I can see is if doing reverse spin flicks.......now that could bend a tiebar! And of course in an accident - but then a bent tiebar won't be the main worry.......