29 replies to this topic

[Fogg]

Hi this is my first post on this forum so sorry is this has already been covered.

I have recently installed a eletronic ignition from a mg metro 1275 into my mini (mini chelsea 998cc 1986) and i am having some problems with it. The problem is that when i crank the car over there is no spark, as soon as i release the key there is a spark. I have installed a wire from the fuse box to supply the module with 12volts while the car is cranking over, this doesnt see to do anything. IF i supply the etronic igniton module with seperate 12volt source such as another battery the car will start fine. What is the problem? Any ideas?

[Sprocket]

Sounds like you are using the wrong supply off the fuse box. Not too sure but I think the ignition switch position 'I' supplied fuse, IE the radio and the like, actualy switch off momentaraly as the ignition switch is turned to the 'start' position to help prevent excessive drain on the battery.

You need to find which fuse is supplied by position II on the ignition switch, Green only and White only i think either side of the fuse

[Dan]

What colour are the standard wires to your coil?

Incidentally the electronic distributor from the MG Metro isn't all that compatible with the 998. The mechanical advance curve is wrong for the cam and the vacuum advance is well out. You can get the unit tweaked if you like by a good rolling road.

Edited by Dan, 18 January 2006 - 08:26 PM.

[Fogg]

The standard wires going to the coil are, The white/pink ballast wire and the white/yellow wire from the starter soldenoid. On the oposite side of the coil is 2 white/black wires one which used to come from the points now connected to the electronic module and another white/black which goes into the loom. The car seems to run well with the distributor once started, much smoother revving and it seems to allow the car to rev higer. I just need to sort out the starting problem

[dklawson]

Back To The Top

For Simon

Surely some of you have made this conversion?

[Dan]

I don't know what you mean about supplying the module with 12v while the car is cranking, you need to supply the module with 12v all the time. As you know you have a ballasted ignition which means that the ignition system was designed to work at a lower voltage, the module needs 12v. Anyhow, since you're connected to the fuse box you probably do have 12v all the time since there's no cranking terminal in the box and I probably just misunderstood.

Sounds to me like the ballast cranking connection at the solenoid is on the wrong terminal or broken. If the starter bypass is connected wrong then it'll do this as the ballast wire will drop down to around 4 volts on starting which isn't enough for the ballast coil to operate. When you relase the key it'l leap back up to 9v for a second and the engine will stutter. That's what the bypass is for, to continue to supply about 9 volts on starting.

[dklawson]

Dan, I'm trying to help him sort this out by email. I'm at a great disadvantage as I've never seen the electronic ignition he's working with. Can you spell out the color codes of the module wiring so I can help him figure out what goes where?

I assume from what you've posted above that there should be a connection supplying the module with +12v (like in Pertronix Ignitor) and there should be a connection to coil (-). Is there also a ground wire to connect?

I think we've sorted out that he has a ballast coil since he's measured its resistance at 1.5 Ohms. U.S. Minis never got ballasted ignitions but Canadian ones did. Canadian Minis had a different solenoid with an extra switched spade lug to power coil (+) during starting. I'm assuming that Fogg would have such a solenoid but don't know for sure. When did Minis in the U.K. switch to ballasted ignition? I believe Fogg said his car was a '78 (or did I imagine that?) Would he have the right solenoid if it's original to his car?

[Fogg]

Hi the car is a 86 an i just put a reconditioned starter and solenoid on the car. What needs to be hooked up to the solenoid for the bypass to work?

[Fogg]

Ok just done a couple more tests, the wire from the starter solenoid to the coil is getting around 10.4volts while the car is cranking. Is this enough voltage, i am thinking about going to buy a new coil as i think this may be the problem....

[dklawson]

Sorry Fogg, I've got to wait on the color code information before I can suggest anything. I need to understand what each connection on the module is for and then I can be of more help. Hang in there.

[Fogg]

Thats ok u have helped me out more than enough already.

[Sprocket]

The amplifier module on the distributer has a connector plug on it, this plug has two wires, red (may be white in some) and black if memory serves. The red or white needs to be supplied with 12 volts from the fuse powered by position II of the ignition switch (Has green wire on the fused side and white on the unfused side, second fuse down from the top, connect to the white). The black connects to the negative (-) of the coil. The posative (+) of the coil is supplied with voltage in one of two ways depending on the coil type. A balasted coil (9volts) will have two wires on the posative (+) terminal, one white/ pink and the other white/ yellow. The white/ pink is a resistor wire (balast, hence the term balasted ignition) and is supplied with 12 volts from the same white wire as described above. This wire reduces the voltage to aroud 9 volts. The white/ yellow wire is fed from the motor side of starter solenoid when the starter is turned on, cranked, turned over, which ever you want to call it. This provides full available voltage (between 9 and 11 volts) ONLY when the starter is in use, where the resistor (balast) wire would not. (starter causing drain on battery reduces voltage)

If you have a non balasted type coil the posative (+) will be supplied with 12 volts by a white wire from the ignition switch as described above.

So to recap


All ignition types

Red (may be white on some) wire from amplifier module of the distributer supplied with 12volts from the ignition switch position II (white wire second fuse down).

Black wire from the amplifier module of the distributer connect to the negative (-) terminal on the coil.


Balasted coil (9volt)

White/ pink wire supplied with 12 volts from the ignition switch position II (white wire second fuse down) connects to the posative (+) terminal on the coil.

White/ Yellow supplied from the switched side (motor side) of the starter solenoid (there is a terminal specific for this on both types of solenoid), connects to the posative (+) terminal on the coil. THERE MUST NOT BE A PERMANENT 12 VOLTS FROM THIS TERMINAL, COMPONENT DAMAGE MAY RESULT IF THERE IS!!


Non balasted coil (12volt) (standard)

White wire supplied with 12 volts from the ignition switch position II (white wire second fuse down) connects to the posative (+) terminal on the coil.

You say the car is an 86 therefore as original fit the ignition type is Ballasted and would suspect the starter is of the pre engaged type with the solenoid ontop of the motor (though 86 is a cross over year between the two types). Problems arise when some one has replaced the ballasted coil with a non ballasted one and or altered the wiring. then you need to identify what parts you do or do not have.

Hope this is not too confusing and is of any help.

Edit typed in blue

Edited by Mini Sprocket, 21 January 2006 - 04:12 PM.

[dklawson]

Thanks Sprocket. That's exactly what I was looking for. Hopefully your post will help Simon sort out the electrical connections. Great (and very informative) reply.

[kada1980]

Nice one sprocket i'm just about to do this myself, putting a 1275 into a mini, and i have a spare metro which used to be 1275 with lecky ignition.

[mini-mad-mark]

Reviving a thread as I can't find the straightforward answer to what I hope is a simple question

 

Can I run an unballasted/full fat 12V coil but using the Metro electronic dizzy? 

 

Or does it have to be ballasted - if so my loom does not (currently) have the pink/white resistor wire (is that correct - a resistor to get to 9V) and or the required yellow/white.  

Looking at the metro wiring loom it looks like this:

 

 Metro elec dist starter circuit.JPG   62.39K   4 downloads

 

The W/Y comes from the starter solenoid to the coil and the K/W comes from the starter relay solenoid (which I do have so I can just plumb that in if necessary) as opposed to a ballasted mini where the K/W comes from the ignition switch according to this:

 

 mini starter circuit.JPG   29.27K   3 downloads

 

So if I understand correctly going with the metro solenoid and relay, the K/W will feed 9V through the W/Y except during cranking when the W at the solenoid will provide 12V to the coil through the W/Y (and there wont be a K/W at the coil if I do it this way)

 

- The mini is different as the 9V is always there (ignition switch fed) and then the 12V comes from the starter solenoid straight to the W/Y during cranking yes? (but this is more diffcult as I would need to get the K/W connected to the ignition switch?)

 

I would prefer to run unballasted I think as long as I can use the electronic dizzy....

 

(NB the metro diagram doesn't show the 12v feed to the +ve of the electronic distributor module (blagged from a Haynes manual I found on line)

 

Cheers, Mark

Edited by mini-mad-mark, 27 May 2020 - 06:05 PM.