29 replies to this topic

[sledgehammer]

>>>No distractions<<<
1 passenger max - 4 people in a mini accident = people soup - not enough room
Fire extinguisher would be nice , 3 bright brake lights , good headlights , good brakes , loud horn & good warning triangle (for breakdowns)
keep away from heavy moving objects and stationary ones
strong anchored seats & seat belts & smaller steering wheel (more room for knees)
a braced roll hoop behind drivers seat - with some side impact protection & fat padding
as said above - no one is safe in any car
If hit at the right angle , a Volvo will tear apart just as easy as any other car
Inertia kills

[asahartz]

Interestingly, Volvos are pretty high on insurance! I think it's because there are so many airbags, if you have an accident, however small, it costs a fortune to replace them all.

A car ran into the back of my son's Ibiza - not enough to write it off, but enough to need a new rear valance, bumper & tailgate. It set off the seatbelt pretensioners and disabled the power steering, so the car couldn't even be driven. A Mini would have been bent, but you'd at least have been able to drive it home.

Modern cars have gone the other way now, there's too many safety devices.

[Sam Walters]

I suppose you could fit a roll cage.

Don't stick a big solid lump of metal by your or your passengers heads if you wan't to be safe!

If someone smashes into the side of your mini. You'll be glad you've got a cage with door bars in there.

[AVV IT]

Hmmm the ole' roll cage debate again!!!..... If you do fit one in a road car, you should probably make sure that you and your passengers always wear a helmet too, as they are after all designed to be used in conjunction with approved helmets when used in motorsport.

On another note, serious injuries are not always caused by intrusion into the the passenger compartment though. Just because the car isn't badly crushed by the impact, doesn't mean that you will not receive serious or even fatal injuries.

The most serious injuries in road traffic collisions are often indirect deceleration injuries, (basically where the internal bodily organs are suddenly thrown forward and damaged, as the vehicle rapidly decelerates). Some of the most common are "coup head injuries" (where the brain is thrown against the front inner surface of the skull), "Hepatic dissection", (where the liver gets thrown forward and effectively cut in two by the triangular ligament that holds it in place) and "aortic rupture" (where the heart is thrown forward and effectively torn off its connection to the bodies main artery.)

These can and do occur in collisions where the car itself is not extensively damaged, simply because they are caused by the sudden deceleration forces acting on the body, not due to direct injury from damage to the vehicle. Don't get me wrong, a car that does not collapse in around you is certainly likely to protect you from a significant number of direct injuries, many of which could be serious or even fatal. It's just that it can't protect you from everything. As I once heard someone describe their Volvo........ "this car might not save my life, but at least I'll be a good looking corpse if it doesn't!!"

Edited by AVV IT, 29 August 2011 - 02:14 PM.

[oliver122]

i rode a bike for 2 years before gettign my license , and that seems to help , because you become aware of your surrounding&amp;#39;s alot more , like when cars pull out you get on your brakes sooner , you learn to look at whats going to happen rather than whats happening at that moment if you get me ?
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i thought about sticking a cage in , i was under the illusion , if rally drivers have them , and they flip them they must be safe &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;, but rally drivers also have a hell of alot of padding around them , solid mounted seats , none stretch harness&amp;#39;s , helmets and they also race in stripped out modern cars , which are again design with crumple zones . if you put a roll cage in a mini it stiffens it all up , meaning what crumple zones you do have are now rigid
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this is a picture that is one of the threads on here somewhere

 image002.jpg   124.3K   15 downloads

Edited by oliver122, 29 August 2011 - 05:07 PM.

[Cooperman]

You don't wear crash helmets on the road sections of rallies and padded roll cages are deemed safe by RACMSA scrutineers.
Must say, i always feel safer when wearing my helmet though and I would never put a cage in a road Mini.
The best advice is to ensure that there is absolutely no rust in the structure and that all suspension, brakes & tyres are in top condition.

[Ethel]

If we accept Minis aren't the best cars to have a crash in then the practical measures are ones that reduce the risk of having one at all.

Keep your tyres, and particularly brakes, in tip top condition - no ABS means unbalanced brakes will make the car harder to control if you have to brake hard. A high level brake light and being quicker to turn on your lights in poor conditions will help others to avoid running in to you, as much as decent wipers & washers will help you see hazards in good time.

If you are unlucky enough to have a bump, decent seats and belts or harnesses will help and you could look for some doors with impact bars from the last production models.

Clear the loose clutter from the passenger compartment too.

[jamiestevenbell]

if you dont have passangers in the rear a rear rollcage is a good idea in case of an off

[Shifty]

My advice would be to make sure the car is as structurally sound as possible, no oversills or crappy welding.

Some big seats out of a later car and a set of later doors with the door bars fitted as well.

The thing with an accident is one of the best ways to survive it is by a controlled stop, a sudden halt will most likely cause internal damge. Roll cages are very good at bringing things to a sudden halt. Sometimes this is a good thing, usually on the road it isn't..

Crumple zones save lives, defensive driving saves lives. A 3rd brake light is a very good addition as welll.

[MiniLandy]

...you learn to look at whats going to happen rather than whats happening at that moment if you get me?

This chaps got it.

I once had a chat with Pete (Cooperman) about this kind of thing, that ended with us agreeing that there is rarely an excuse for having a crash on the road. On the rally stage/track, yes, accidents happen as you're pushing the car and your talent to their limits, at speed. On the road, you drive as fast as the conditions allow, giving yourself enough time to react to any hazards you can see. If you can't see far enough ahead, slow down. If conditions are poor, slow down. If EVERYONE thought like this, safety wouldn't be a worry on the roads.

One last thing, I am definately NOT a slow driver BUT I've been driving my mini every day for two years (since passing my test, 4th time lucky) and have never had a crash. Been crashed into, once, and very nearly killed, twice, by being pulled out on.

Edited by MiniLandy, 29 August 2011 - 10:12 PM.

[Cooperman]

...you learn to look at whats going to happen rather than whats happening at that moment if you get me?

This chaps got it.

I once had a chat with Pete (Cooperman) about this kind of thing, that ended with us agreeing that there is never an excuse for having a crash on the road, ever. On the rally stage/track, yes, accidents happen as you're pushing the car and your talent to their limits, at speed. On the road, you drive as fast as the conditions allow, giving yourself enough time to react to any hazards you can see. If you can't see far enough ahead, slow down. If conditions are poor, slow down. If EVERYONE thought like this, safety wouldn't be a worry on the roads.

One last thing, I am definately NOT a slow driver BUT I've been driving my mini every day for two years (since passing my test, 4th time lucky) and have never had a crash. Been crashed into, once, and very nearly killed, twice, by being pulled out on.

Hi Paul. I think I said there is very rarely an excuse for having an accident on the road. That's what the met Police used to teach.
The key is not to drive faster than you know how to. As your skills develop you learn what is safe.
the most important safety factor is 'the nut that holds the wheel'!

[MiniLandy]

...amended my post

[Cooperman]

A Mini is a safe car if built and driven well. I've rolled them in rallies (twice), had a head-on with a truck as a passenger in a Cooper 'S' (see the thread in Mini Chat). Never had a scratch. The Mini body is a strong monocoque.
Now, if I may be a bit controversial, I'll give some advice. This applies to making a road Mini as safe as possible and is not concerned with track/race cars. I know some will disagree, but these are my personal observations after many years with the classic Mini in all its forms, in competition and over tens of thousans of road miles.
Make sure your Mini is rust-free and has the complete steel body with no GRP front ends or badly repaired panel work.
Set the ride height to standard to ensure that if you go off the road whilst carrying out an 'accident avoidance' the suspension will fully work as intended and have its full travel as designed. Lowered suspension is for the track, not the road in safety terms.
Bolt the front sub-frame in solidly and thus remove the rubber mountings. This ensures that any crash-case frontal loads go into the monocoque structure as intended in the original design.
Run a maximum tyre width of 165 section on a rim width of, ideally up to 5" and certainly no more than 6". This is to ensure the best wet stopping distance. Run good quality tyres, not cheap 'Nangkipooh' junk.
Improve the seat fixings if you can.
Have good dampers and, if they are adjustable, set them to a firmish setting, but not too hard.
Make sure the suspension geometry is as accurate as you can get it.
Keep the brakes in tip-top condition with the best quality pads and linings.
Have good headlights, accurately aligned, for night driving. Replace those useless sealed beam 'electric candles' with good halogen units.
Keep the screen wipers in good condition and regularly treat the screen with 'Rainex'.
Fit a more powerful washer pump.

Now, the Mini is a very agile car and you should be able to avoid hard impacts. Always look well ahead and avoid collisions by choosing the 'softest place to crash' if a crash is inevitable. Fatals usually occur when a driver panics and just locks up the wheels and stops steering resulting in a very hard impact.
A Mini is different from a modern car and must be driven accordingly. It is an over 50-year old design and that can't be engineered out. Drive accordingly and don't drive faster than you know how to. If you can get some advice or training from a real experienced and safe Mini expert, take it and be grateful. It could save your life.
Drive it like the motoring icon it really is. I always love driving my Coopers, but they must be treated with respect.
Just enjoy your Mini motoring and be safe.

[MJWarren]

I think this whole idea about not having a roll cage unless your wearing helmets is a bit far fetched or not having one in a road car.

There would be a little more on my mind than hitting my head on a padded roll cage bar eg. the engine joining me in the cab, or a nice side impact.

[Cooperman]

Yes, I have a roll cage in my Cooper 'S' an d it's a full Safety Devices FIA Spec one.
On rallies there is usually a high road mileage and you don't wear crash helmets on those (ear plugs probably).
I have proper roll-cage padding everywhere where the tubes could cause injury and that's fine. of course the seats are proper competition ones and the belts are FIA Approved full harness.
It's really not an issue, although I don't think I would want a cage in a road car and don't feel it necessary.