26 replies to this topic

[Dan]

They don't have to, the law is that it's down to their opinion just as it is at the MOT. It's written that way so that they don't have to listen to arguments from drivers banging on about them having something better to do.

[giner88]

They don't have to, the law is that it's down to their opinion just as it is at the MOT. It's written that way so that they don't have to listen to arguments from drivers banging on about them having something better to do.

that does not really add up, having nothing written as a law is surely going to cause more arguments? they need to have some sort of basis to say its too loud. If they have no clue as to how loud a car was originaly, then they cant say its louder than it should be. All they could do is advise you.

if they put a fine on me, i would just take it to court and explain my situation, and as theres no solid evidence they would not be able to prove of disprove a thing.

anyway, minis are genraly noisey cars as standerd so i cant see this effecting us too much. its more for the Chavs in Corsas and Saxos with there 100mm exhausts

Edited by giner88, 20 January 2012 - 01:20 AM.

[surfblue63]

so whats the legal limit on noise then?

I dont believe there is a legal/illegal limit? thou its based around the standard exhaust so if it was stupidly load as standard it would be legal, but if its been replaced then if your insured it should be ok thou if your not then your screwed.

There are noise limits in The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986. There are different levels depending when your car was first in use and the amount of power it has. Click the link below for the levels.

http://www.legislati...ulation/55/made

Click the link below to see the test method. I guess you could argue your case if the police carrying out the checks do not use this method to test your car.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexplus!prod!DocNumber&lg=en&type_doc=Directive&an_doc=1970&nu_doc=157

[racingbob]

as long as you got twin exhaust on your mini you should be fine

years ago i remember at thruxton being tested for noise on the mini 7 series
we had to have no more than 90 decibels at 4000 revs
so 90 decibels comes in somewhere

[AVV IT]

as long as you got twin exhaust on your mini you should be fine

How many classic minis have twin exhausts then?... Some have twin box systems, Some have twin exit tail pipes (generally the louder ones)... but I can't say that I've seen very many with twin exhausts!!

Edited by AVV IT, 20 January 2012 - 09:27 AM.

[Cooperman]

as long as you got twin exhaust on your mini you should be fine

How many classic minis have twin exhausts then?... Some have twin box systems, Some have twin exit tail pipes (generally the louder ones)... but I can't say that I've seen very many with twin exhausts!!

I think he meant a twin-box system and those are normally fine.
It's not how many decibels you are allowed or not allowed, it's how those decibels are measured. That is distance from the end of the exhaust, the angle from the end and the revs at which the rtest takes place.

[AVV IT]

It's not how many decibels you are allowed or not allowed, it's how those decibels are measured. That is distance from the end of the exhaust, the angle from the end and the revs at which the rtest takes place.

I think that depends upon what particular law (or even part of the law) that they are trying to enforce. If they are trying to enforce section 55 of The road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986, then the method of enforcement (i.e test) is very specific in the way you describe and also virtually impossible to perform without the necessary equipment. But if they are only trying to enforce section 54 part 2, all they have to do is to be sure beyond reasonable doubt that the exhaust has been modified from standard and also appears louder, which of course is a lot more vague and far more practical for a roadside test.

"54.—(2) Every exhaust system and silencer shall be maintained in good and efficient working order and shall not be altered so as to increase the noise made by the escape of exhaust gases."

I believe that they can also avoid the Construction and Use Regs altogether if they wish and charge you with causing a "Statutory Nuisance" under the Environmental protection Act 1990 instead.

Statutory nuisance law is based in public health legislation and for something to be a statutory nuisance, all there has to be is an effect on health or well being. (i.e. the police officer just has to claim that the noise from your exhaust is causing distress or giving people a headache!!)

Failing all that, I think they can even claim that your exhaust is creating "a common law nuisance" instead, which is defined as " a matter which is unreasonable and causes substantial interference on the use and enjoyment of a persons property". So all they have to do is claim that your exhaust is upsetting local residents.

Basically they have a number of different sticks at their disposal to beat you with, if they so wish!!

Edited by AVV IT, 20 January 2012 - 11:28 AM.

[Teapot]

Iphone ones only go to a certain level, (110 Db) i think off hand as the microphones arnt good enough, but i think you may be able to get one to plug in as an app i had said if you plug one in its good up to 140Db or something :)

Thanks for that. I might give the app a go since the required limit appears to be below 100 db. However, where I hold the phone will make a big difference, I guess.
As for the other issues raised here, I started with this http://www.the-ace.o...-cost-cash.html
A printout of Surfblue's second document might be useful to have in the car but the police wouldn't like it. There seem to be at least three ways of roadside exhaust testing -- drive-by, static with microphone and roller (though maybe the latter is only for bikes) with fairly strict rules on the prevailing background noise levels, road surface and correctly averaging the various samples.
I asked our local police about it some time ago but they said they didn't know what I was talking about
Any experiences of being tested under the new system would be useful.

EDIT A police spokesman said, "We will consider prosecution at 90dB and so far, in testing we have had one vehicle at 103dB and one where we had to abort the test due to complaints about the noise level while the test was being conducted."

Edited by Teapot, 20 January 2012 - 11:37 AM.

[pdaykin]

Noise testing has been done for several years in Derbyshire.

Single box exhausts are a big no no.

IIRC the ERA mini had problems passing the dry by noise regs

[Cerberus]

EDIT A police spokesman said, "We will consider prosecution at 90dB and so far, in testing we have had one vehicle at 103dB and one where we had to abort the test due to complaints about the noise level while the test was being conducted."

That's ridiculous, there's a load of high performance sports cars which are certainly louder than 90dB in stock form. And I bet some may even get up to 103 too in stock form, granted there's not many of them, but they still exist.

I'm sure if you were driving past sensibly and not revving the nuts off the car, they wouldn't do anything.

As others have said, its got to to be aimed at the people with six 5" exhaust cans out the back, driving around in 2nd gear everywhere.

[oscat]

Just found this on BBC website:
http://news.bbc.co.u...and/8112905.stm
It's dated June 2009 so this has been around for a while.
Fairly sure my Maniflow single box won't pass one of these tests. I had the DTM 'S Works' exhaust (a Rover optional extra from FACTORY) when I bought the car which was louder than my current one. Seems very unfair in some situations if they were to penalise people.

[surfblue63]

I believe that they can also avoid the Construction and Use Regs altogether if they wish and charge you with causing a "Statutory Nuisance" under the Environmental protection Act 1990 instead.

Statutory nuisance law is based in public health legislation and for something to be a statutory nuisance, all there has to be is an effect on health or well being. (i.e. the police officer just has to claim that the noise from your exhaust is causing distress or giving people a headache!!)

Failing all that, I think they can even claim that your exhaust is creating "a common law nuisance" instead, which is defined as " a matter which is unreasonable and causes substantial interference on the use and enjoyment of a persons property". So all they have to do is claim that your exhaust is upsetting local residents.

Basically they have a number of different sticks at their disposal to beat you with, if they so wish!!

This makes intresting reading from Reigate and Banstead Borough Council

http://www.reigate-b...austs/index.asp

Car exhausts noise nuisance

This section provides information and advice on making a complaint about noise from car exhausts.
It is possible that noise from car exhausts could constitute a statutory nuisance within the provisions of the Environmental Protection Act 1990 - but this is unlikely.
The primary legislation aimed at dealing with such noise is the Motor Vehicle (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986.
These regulations lay down maximum permitted noise levels from exhausts and the regulations are enforced by the police and the Vehicle Inspectorate.
Other legal provision which may be applicable are common law nuisance and section 82 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990.
Both of these allow individuals to take their own legal action and may offer a more speedy remedy than we can offer using our powers under the Environmental Protection Act 1990.
Under some circumstances the activity may be controlled by an Anti-Social Behaviour Order (ASBO) which can be obtained from a court by the Community Safety Department or the Police.
However, it should be noted that ASBOs can only be granted by a court all other appropriate legal channels have been tried by the local authority and have failed.
If your concern relates to exhaust noise from a neighbour's vehicle (rather than an unknown person regularly using the road by your house) we would advise you to speak to your neighbours in the first instance. They may be unaware of the degree of disturbance they are causing
Before you make a formal complaint we strongly recommend you read our guidance notes on making a complaint.
Having read the guidance notes, make your complaint online or make your complaint by letter, telephone or email.
We will need to know exactly where the activity is taking place and when it may be witnessed by our officers. Any other information would be helpful.
We would also advise you to make a complaint to the owner of the property from which the disturbance emanates if it is occupied by a tenant.

Last updated : 07/11/2008

Just don't tell your neibours