33 replies to this topic

[DeadBert]

I've got an answer from Colin at KAD. He's already told me that he doesn't mind me posting his response on here. All I can say is that I'll be getting my brakes from KAD, I'll have to update you all with my impressions once I have used them:

Here are Colins comments:

"To provide a few answers:
Why are our calipers more expensive?
We machine in house, we cost our machining on what it costs us using our methods. We don't outsource anything apart from the anodising. We buy materials from known UK suppliers. We pressure test every caliper before it leaves the factory. We take care over every caliper.
I can't answer why M*******t and M********s are cheaper. That is what it costs us. Are KAD overpriced? Quality costs extra. We will not and never have compromised what we do to compete lower down the market.

Are our calipers better?
Ask the majority of the Mini Miglia field. Most of the serious racers use our calipers because they are a better design. A caliper is a simple hydraulic clamp. The stiffer the structure, the more clamping force will be exerted from the pistons onto the pads and hence more brake torque.
We have deflection tested calipers from both of our competitors and they don't get anywhere near the stiffness of our design. Count the number of bolts holding the halves together. Six is better than four. Our dust seal is in a captive groove, it won't lift out like the pressed in rings used by our competitors. We offer a stainless steel race piston option- that is the market we sell to.

Testing:
Aside from our 20 years of hands on experience manufacturing brake calipers for anything from superbikes through to Nissan Skylines and Evos, we designed the Mini calipers, then we fatigue tested the calipers on our own hydraulic fatigue test rig for 100,000 cycles and then the calipers were run on our own brake testing dynamometer to assess the performance with heat and load.
Although we no longer have the brake dyno, I very much doubt either of our competitors performed any such testing on their designs. Every caliper that is built is then pressure tested to 1000 psi before it is dispatched.

People love to pick holes in KAD, if it is not the 16 valve myths then it is the caliper myths or the 5 speed gearbox myths, we're kind of used to it!

I don't mind if you post this up verbatim on the forum, I have a pretty thick skin :)"

[ministar]

Minisport do employ/outsource brake developers...


Ok, KAD might say they are more expensive due to cost because they produce them in house, but surely units sold is less on the KAD calipers hence increasing the price (to some degree)...

Yes, for the record, I have Minisport 7.9'' 4 Pots, and are very good.. Very much improved on 8.4 cast 2 pots (but I know that isnt the arguement).


Ask minisport why their calipers are cheaper, and what their selling points are.... I don't think their reply will as eloquent as KAD's though.

[matty...]

That sounds like a fair enough answer to me. Looks like I'll be buying front and rears from KAD then...better start saving!

[tiger99]

So they pressure test to 1000psi. And what is the actual peak pressure achieved in a Mini under heavy panic braking? Somewhat more, I do believe, nearly double.

And testing to 100k cycles is far less than used by mainstream manufacturers. I can't immediately find the legal requirement for type approval, but I do know that another item which is cyclically stressed by braking, a towbar, needs to go through 10 million simulated braking cycles, so brake components should be similar.

As I suggested previously, the integrity depends totally on their design assumptions actually matching reality, which they clearly do not.

One thing is correct, I do agree that the two competing products are badly engineered trash made from third rate materials. KAD do actually use good material and machine them well.