21 replies to this topic

[giner88]

Anybody like to shoot? i have an .22 air rifle but was thinking about up gunning to a shot gun, any ideas how hard it is to get a shot gun, legaly! LOL

[RawlinsGTR]

I've fired a .22 Bolt Action, a L98 A1 (5.56 Semi-Automatic) and a L81 A2 (7.62 Bolt Action), as in all fired by actual explosion rather than air or spring.

Used to take part in competitions, but I don't anymore.

Can't answer your question about a shotgun!!

[TA2DMAC]

The wife and I go to the range on a regular basis. I carry a 9mm M&P compact any time I'm out and the wife a .380 LCP. For the house I have a Mossberg 500SP.

[Old Bob]

Anybody like to shoot? i have an .22 air rifle but was thinking about up gunning to a shot gun, any ideas how hard it is to get a shot gun, legaly! LOL

Not difficult. Just go to your local police station and get an application form. There is a fair amount of hassle factor now so you will need to show why you need one (vermin control if you live in a rural area) or which land you will legally be allowed to shoot on. You will also have to provide a steel, lockable gun box which will need to be securely bolted to a wall and you should expect police questions and the odd visit from your local community copper.

Note that a shotgun permit and a firearms license are very different - the later is now fairly difficult to get.

Bob

[Artful Dodger]

start with a 20 bore. it will be a good learner gun as going from .22 air rifles to shot guns is a big step! the recoil will be new to you and going straight in with a 12 bore.. lets just say it will be a painful experience after a days shooting ;)

[Frank the Tank]

The biggest thing is getting suitable storage for your shotgun.

Not too bad for me as I will get mine put in our armoury.

Love doing the ol' clay pigeon shooting, makes a change from the normal ranges.

[Black.Ghost]

Dog, Iassumeare talking about the SA80? Were you in Cadets? The A2 is also 5.56.

TA2DMAC, American gun laws, to me, are crazy. I know it's a different culture and attitude in America but it still seems mental that ordinary people (no offence!) can carry weapons. Do you fear for your life enough every time you go out that you need your weapon? I'm just curious about the whole attitude to weapons over the pond.

[lapider]

Dog, Iassumeare talking about the SA80? Were you in Cadets? The A2 is also 5.56.

TA2DMAC, American gun laws, to me, are crazy. I know it's a different culture and attitude in America but it still seems mental that ordinary people (no offence!) can carry weapons. Do you fear for your life enough every time you go out that you need your weapon? I'm just curious about the whole attitude to weapons over the pond.

the culture is so much different over there. i can remember it being a really interesting to see 2 police officers with rifles shortly after the london bombings that was the closest id been to anything larger than an air rifle. then i went to america and as soon as i got into the terminal i saw an american solder kitted out in camo with a M16 in one hand and a Chinese take away in the other.

i personally think that the UK is too scared of guns and as a result there really rare in the UK. but on the other hand i do kind of think its a bit unnecessary how in the USA all you need is a clean slate a permanent address and to be 18 and you can have a handgun 14 days later. to make it clear i think rifle ownership should be more open in the UK but hand guns and machine gun ownership were really designed to much for killing in warfare to allow a civilian to own one.

[mini-luke]

i personally think that the UK is too scared of guns

Surely that isn't a bad thing though?

[Black.Ghost]

Was he at least on duty?! It's all very a trained soldier walking around with a weapon on duty, but otherwise it's lunacy! Its easy enough to get jumped etc and then a very lethal weapon is in the public domain. That can't be a good thing.

There was an army officer who left her pistol in Sainsbury's a few years ago, it was in the press. Didn't slow her promotion down one bit!

[lapider]

i personally think that the UK is too scared of guns

Surely that isn't a bad thing though?

yeah especially for hand guns and machine guns, but i think rifles could become more commercially available for recreational use.

Was he at least on duty?! It's all very a trained soldier walking around with a weapon on duty, but otherwise it's lunacy! Its easy enough to get jumped etc and then a very lethal weapon is in the public domain. That can't be a good thing.

There was an army officer who left her pistol in Sainsbury's a few years ago, it was in the press. Didn't slow her promotion down one bit!

he was on duty but he was holding it by the handle and around the trigger guard pointing it at the ground, i think he was on his lunch break or something.

Edited by lapider, 08 February 2012 - 11:26 AM.

[giner88]

i got a gun cabinet already so thats not problem. as i was told even Air rifles need to be stored away these days :/ god knows why if i wanted to hurt someone id use the 15inch camping bowie, which is a damn site more dangerous than an air rifle. i got my friends farm which is where we shoot rabbits mainly. so that wouldent be to hard to prove. i guess i need to get myself down the station and ask some questions. but i dont have a criminal record and i live in quite a rural place so it should not be to hard.... i hope

[TA2DMAC]

A few reasons why I carry, and carry proudly.

:Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Quoted by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764.

:To defend ourselves against an armed force raised by the government to oppress us, or to defend against an invading enemy.

Unfortunately we don't live the the World of "Leave it to Beaver."

America is a mixing pot of all races, creeds and religions. Rich, middle class, Poor and desperate. We have people from different cultures, countries and ethnic backgrounds. Many bring not only their beliefs and values here with them, but also their hatered and crimes.

Most come with a dream for a new beginning and a better life, but it also draws those who wish to take that from others. We don't live in a perfect world and as we all know, not everyone has the tolerance to accept the views and ideals of others. You can even go as far as to say they despise one another based on it.

If you take guns out of the hands of Law abiding citezens, the only ones who will have them are the Criminals and the Government, both of which can not be trusted.

Both lust for control, power and greed at the hands of those that cannot stand against them.

It would be wrong to enforce a situation where I or any other can not defend my family, my community or myself or to tip the scales drastically toward the unjust.

I'd rather carry and know that if I ever needed to defend myself, and believe me I hope it never happens, that I could rather then become a victim or worse a statistic.

Edited by TA2DMAC, 09 February 2012 - 12:59 AM.

[Black.Ghost]

What if a kid finds it at home and has an accident with it? They could shoot you, one of their siblings, or even themselves. While I agree with the first point, by legalising guns it makes them easier for the villains so inclined to obtain them. Whatever your opinions are of the government (I assume you mean police, FBI etc) carrying weapons and not to be trusted, I am pretty sure if one of them points a weapon at you, and you pull yours out to defend yourself, you are signing your own death warrant. As for criminals etc carrying weapons, if they are pointing a weapon at you, are you really going to try and withdraw yours and shoot them first? That would lead to a similar scenario to the police. Either way, you are dead. Have you ever fired your gun? If so, was it actually at someone or on a range? What about those people who have a gun but have never fired it? Are there any laws that say you have to pass a safety test to show you know what you are doing? Or how to take a aimed shot properly? While to some people it may be simple, to others it wont be and that is just going to cause accidents. If you have a weapon at home, and it is locked away, how is that going to help you? If someone breaks in its very unlikely you will be able to get to the weapon, get it out of the container/storage facility and then be able to shoot the intruder. (This isn't a personal attack on you by the way, I am just trying to get an idea of the thinking etc) We have plenty of gun crime in the UK, as I am sure you do over the pond, although I have no idea what the actual stats are. Shooting can be fun, but its very dangerous and needs to be done in a controlled environment. I know Americans think it is against their constitutional rights to prevent them owning a firearm, but for me its unjustifiable why the average Joe would need a weapon.

Edited by Black.Ghost, 09 February 2012 - 01:58 PM.

[TA2DMAC]

I understand your points, so please allow me to answer a few.

What if a kid finds it at home and has an accident with it? They could shoot you, one of their siblings, or even themselves.

First, owning a gun also comes with great responsibility. In order for me to be able to carry a pistol I hade to take a course, pass an interview and be approved by the gun board of my county. This is an indepth course that deals with saftey, laws, regulations and your legal and moral responsibilities and obligations as a gun owner.
A child getting ahold of a gun the resultof an irresponsible gun owner. 95% of the time you hear of a child death as you described above comes from this. As well the majority of those are illegally owned guns. The owner is not educated nor has educated his household of the saftey and dangers of firearms.
Think of it like this, your child doesn't walk into the kitchen and grab a knife out of the drawer and start stabbing people or themselves because I would think you would teach your child that its dangerous and would keep the knives out of reach. However you would teach them how to properly use one when they were old enough to understand.

Whatever your opinions are of the government (I assume you mean police, FBI etc) carrying weapons and not to be trusted, I am pretty sure if one of them points a weapon at you, and you pull yours out to defend yourself, you are signing your own death warrant.

Actually I'd never draw a weapon on an officer if they are doing their duty within the means of the law. What is ment by this is that we as a country have the right to bear arms to keep our government in check. By this I mean our government does not have the right to invade our homes without undue cause. Their are laws and procedures that our government must comply to in order to enter our homes. They may enter if they feel a true threat upon a person or the public exists, but must be done via a warrent or just cause. The government does not have the right to bully its patrons.

As a responsible owner , the owner must at all time secure the firearm, be it carried or in their home. I have a safe and locking guncases. My safe can be accessed via finger scan. When I'm not wearing it , it's locked and loaded and very easy to get to if needed. Everyone in this house knows exactly what to do if there is an intruder. We have a safe spot that my family know where to head too. If the alarm company hasn't alerted the police, either me or my wife has already dialed 911. I know I have anywhere from 2 to 5 mins before police arrive. I live less then a mile form our police station. If the alarm hasn't already scared the criminal off the deadbolts on the doors will hold them off to give me enough time to respond and take any actions to secure the safety of my family.

As for criminals etc carrying weapons, if they are pointing a weapon at you, are you really going to try and withdraw yours and shoot them first?

Unless I've been caught totally by surprise or have put myself in a place where the criminal would aready have a gun on me, this is not likely to happen. I can't say it won't but it's very unlikey. I'm usually very aware of my surroundings, part of my training and military background, and I don't put myself in situations or places where that type of activity is likely to happen. If the criminal aready has the upper hand, there is very little I can do. Usually a situation like that, they only want your valubles and not your life. The best thing to do is comply, but if their is an opportunity that I can get away or prevent the situation i will do it. Killing is the very last resort.

Have you ever fired your gun? If so, was it actually at someone or on a range? What about those people who have a gun but have never fired it?

I am very well versed in firearms as well as my wife. We go to the range to practice as well as taking extra courses for security, house clearing and quick responce to situations. I have had to deal with situations where i've had to point my rifle at an assailent during my time in the military and security fields. I've never had to shoot anyone and for that I am thankfull. However if it came down to it and it was the only possible outcome I would do what I had to do.

To refer to the second part :What about those people who have a gun but have never fired it? See above about irresponsible gun owners.

by the way, I don't see this as a personal attact, I see it as someone trying to understand another view. I hope i have enlightened you somewhat. Feel free to ask any questions you like. If I came across brash in any way, please forgive me. I have a habit of being blunt when it comes to things I'm passionate about.

Education is infinitely more powerful then regulation.