27 replies to this topic

[mk=john]

Hi
My mini is any early 1960 Mini Minor, with the original 850cc engine. Since the engine has been rebuilt, I have done around 200 miles of `running-in' type driving.

Since the first time I drove it, I have noticed water appearing around one of the cylinder head nuts on the engine, and I think is is leaking. It isn't spewing out lots of water, but just a dribble of water which appears as a standing puddle around the nut. I can taste antifreeze in the water.

It does not seem to affect the engine performance, the engine sounds great, pulls away nicely. There is no white smoke coming from the exhaust which would signify water in the bores.

The cylinder and head were both skimmed durung the rebuild and can only assume these are perfectly smooth and flat. The engine builder said that the type of gasket used does not require the use of washers under the nuts. (see photo)

So, what can cause this water leak? It is more of an annoyance than anything, as said, it isnt affecting the running of the car at all.

Photo attatched (I hope it shows the water!)

Cheers
John

Attached Files

•  P3101929.JPG   67.62K   30 downloads

[CLM]

Hmm, isn't there supposed to be plain washers under those nuts? I don't think those nuts alone would seal well with the design of the engine, the washers might give an additional flat to flat surface to seal? I just remember having a similar leak on an 850 and I tightened it a little more.. not saying that is correct though... it has been over 10 years.

Chris

Edited by CLM, 10 March 2012 - 11:43 AM.

[Ethel]

It could be the stud hole goes into the water jacket, or the gasket could be leaking without getting the better of the fire ring. The need for washers has little to do with the head gasket, other than it will totally alter the amount of compression on the gasket in relation to the torque on the nut.

I wouldn't leave it too long in case the leak erodes a channel in the mating faces. Maybe you could pull the stud and probe the hole to see if it has a bottom. If it does, a blob of silicone on the end of the stud might seal it and/or indicate if the leak is at the gasket. Though a new gasket and a set of washers, wouldn't be a bad move.

[Cooperman]

You might try the following:
Take that stud out and put a good smear of gasket sealant onto the threads (Red Hermetite). Re-fit the stud then, one by one, fit washers under each nut torquing to 40 lb.ft. as you go. Finally torque all the nuts down to 50 lb.ft. in the correct sequence. Re-set the valve clearances and give it a try after the sealant has had time to 'go off'.
If it still leaks then it's most likely a gasket issue and it'll need changing.

[mk=john]

Perhaps i will try both. Do i need to buy new studs, or can I use the same ones?

Also, where can I get washers? Standard washers arent up to the job of applying this torque value I dont think.

[Ethel]

I was thinking the same as Cooperman, but was a little concerned that you could stop the leak into the stud hole but not know if the jacket is still leaking under the gasket.

I'd opt for A+ head nuts (cam4545) given the choice, the studs should be fine if they look ok & torque up cleanly.

http://www.minispare...id=35080&title=

[mk=john]

can you clarify?

[Ethel]

The water is either coming up the stud hole from the bottom (I'm not 100% if this is possible) if it breaks into the water jacket, or it's coming from the jacket between the head, or block, face and gasket. You could seal the leak coming up the stud hole without stopping water getting under gasket and you wouldn't know.

[Cooperman]

John,
The washers recommended by 'Ethel' will be ideal. However, they can be a bit too large for the rocker pillar studs and if they are just omit those washers or fit smaller diameter ones.
Which gasket did you use. There are some junk ones out there made from what looks like cardboard. As it's all so new you would be best advise to get a copper-faced top quality one and change it, checking the stud in question as you do it. Re-fit that stud with a bit of sealant if in any doubt, but finally clean off at the stud base before fitting the new gasket.

[mk=john]

Hi
I have a spare copper gasket, which is a new `payan' one. The one on the car isn't copper, it looks more like brushed aluminium or something similar.

I will remove the head this weekend as I don't want any corrosion to start taking hold. I have just ordered some of the Red Hermitite from `FleeBay', and will perhaps now order the nuts from minispares.

Shall I buy new studs? I am not sure how good these ones are, or if they have been torqued up too many times in the past.

[Cooperman]

Really can't see there being any problem with the studs, especially on an 850.
Those 'silvery looking' head gaskets can be complete junk and you'll do well to fit a good-quality copper-faced Payen.
Just get the necessary washers and fit when changing the gasket, re-torquing initially to 40 lb.ft. and finally to 45lb.ft. A small blob of the 'red glue' on the threads of the suspect sted will do no harm, although it may be actually be necessary.
I now suspect the head gasket now you've told us what it looks like.
Slacken each one half a turn and re-torque again to 50 lb. ft. after a couple of heat-up and cool cycles.
Set valve clearances each time to 0.012" in. & ex. cold.

[tiger99]

If the studs have an unknown history, you would do better to change them. It is really annoying to have them fail as you torque up a head after doing work on it, and you can't tell if they have already been taken above the fatigue limit by a previous owner.

I bought a recon engine from a supplier in Oxford, now defunct, many years ago, and as instructed, retorqued it after a short running-in period. I was very careful with the torque wrench, however about half of the studs snapped. Fortunately, in those days Hartwells were within bicycle range and had plenty of studs in stock, so I changed them all.

[mk=john]

Well
Im defo getting new studs, and will apply the blob of sealant to each stud..(belt and braces I am!!). I will get the new washers etc. I already have a Payen Copper gasket still unused its sleeve, so that will go on.

I will remove the cylinder head this weekend, hopefully in a few days I will recieve the sealant I ordered on FleaBay, and also the studs ans washers from minispares.

Then I will replace it all. I will feel happier with a copper gasket anyway.

[dklawson]

That's a shame John. There is nothing I can add to the advice given above.

[twrminisport]

What is said above really,
Washers from MiniSpares
Copper head gaskets are the best

Jesus