21 replies to this topic

[mike.]

You'd be best leaving the block until you've had a proper look at all the parts and decided what machining your having done, and then the block can be hot washed when its being machined. My block didn't need a rebore, but I was fitting an new flywheel, so took the rotating assembly to be balanced and had the block hot washed and new cam bearings fitted while it was there.

You need to decide a budget for your build really, as its easy to get carried away and spend more than you should on an engine.

Having a good read of the haynes and getting a copy of the 1380 A series engine builder DVD. It helped me whilst I was rebuilding my first engine. Just do plenty of reading first before you do much more, and do some searching on here for stuff your struggling with. The point about keeping conrod big end caps on the same rods is an example of an easy mistake to make without gaining a bit of knowledge first.

I don't see why you shouldn't experiment with this engine and rebuilt it yourself really. I rebuilt my engine from scratch with little knowledge and it went well. Any areas you need help on, the forum is here and mini specialist's are usually friendly and easy to get advice from.

Its easy to say how badly it could go wrong, how it has to be done absolutely correctly and how its best left to experts - But getting an engine built by pro isn't cheap, especially when you have to pay for all the machining costs and new parts too, and not everyone can afford that.

Edited by mike., 28 March 2012 - 11:25 PM.

[AntsClubby]

My point exactly Mike...im one of those, read up and dive in sort of people. If im stuck, ill ask else im only causing myself more work at the end of the day.

Im not looking to get a rebore, unless its needed
If it does ill prob just go for a 1293, bit more grunt without weakening the bores by going too big, like someone said there not made anymore so if i break it thats it.
Ideally ill just need the hot clean and some new bearings etc

Ive contacted a local builder who said i can bring it in soon as im finished with the muck removal.
What kind of price did you pay for your work? I take it you built the bottom end up yourself then just had a builder balance it?

So how bad is it then that ive not kept the con rod caps the right way around? Will i need new ones now or is there a way to save them?

I think im going to ask 1st, do i need any work doing then just get a quote to rebuild it with what ive got if it can be reused.
Any ball park ideas if its just going to need a clean and rebuild a price im looking at?

Cheers
Ant

[mike.]

I think I paid about £100, and for that I had the rotating assembly balanced with my new ultra light flywheel and the conrods and things, cam bearings put in the block and the whole lot hot washed. They also built my flywheel/clutch assembly up to with the straps and lock tabs and things.

As far as prices for anything else, if you put together a list of all the bits you'll need to rebuild and get on minispares to price it all up, you'll see how it all mounts up.

Just looked back through my emails and heres a few of the orders I placed when I was rebuilding mine. You'll see not all of the items on there are completely necessary like the silicon hoses and other shiny bits, but a lot of them are things you'll need to consider. Its not just the internal parts of the engine either. Stuff like new mounts and steady bushes, cables, your inlet and exhaust system all needs to be factored in if you want to keep to a budget. Also, if your only going for a mild increase in power, the clutch set up doesn't really need to be upgraded like mine was, maybe just a new verto clutch will do you. This little lot below adds up to around £640! The engine bearings and the ultralight flywheel I bought from minisport where I had the machining done which cost another £160 ish and then my cam kit which included new cam, oil pump, followers, vernier timing gear, that cost around £200 I think. So there £1100 there with machining, and thats without touching the gearbox or including the money I spent on a performance cylinder head and megajolt ignition system. I think a rough figure I spent was around £1500 for a fast road spec 1275 that i'm hoping produces around 90bhp. Obviously you can reduce that by a few hundred quid if your not going for a fancy cylinder head or ignition system.

So, here a load of stuff I bought. Not sure how this will display on the forum as its copy n pasted straight from my email:




1 TAM1521
HEAD GASKET 1300 BLACK BK450 ORIGINAL GASKET.
£ 9.21 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 AJM206MS
BLOCK GASKET SET ALL 1300 EXCEPT S
£ 7.41 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 AJM804B
GEARBOX GASKET SET(GUG708010TS)
£ 6.85 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 GSY110
CLUTCH SLAVE CYLINDER PRE VERTO GENUINE LL10469
£ 17.11 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 GRB201
CLUTCH RELEASE THRUST BEARING PRE VERT0
£ 5.97 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

9 2A3658
CLUTCH FLYWHEEL STRAP(CHECK HOLE SIZE AND MODIFY IF REQD)
£ 2.50 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

3 2A3657
CLUTCH BOLT LONG COVER TO PRESSURE torque to 16lbs only
£ 1.90 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

3 2A3659
CLUTCH FLYWHEEL STRAP BOLT SHORT-torque to 16lbs only
£ 1.67 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 AEA536KIT
OIL RELEASE SPRING AND BALL
£ 1.43 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 AEA536
OIL PRESSURE SPRING ORIGINAL COOPER "S"
£ 0.00 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 BLS916
OIL PRESSURE RELIEF BALL
£ 0.00 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 GTS106
THERMOSTAT 88 C
£ 2.40 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

2 21A1902ST
ENGINE MOUNTING WITH EASY FIT CAPTIVE THREADS MNUAL GEARBOX
£ 2.91 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

2 C-STR630
STABILISER BUSH POLYURETHANE ENGINE KIT
£ 3.70 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

6 53K487
MANIFOLD STUD ALL A SERIES UPTO SINGLE POINT INJECTION
£ 0.47 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

4 GFK3436
MANIFOLD NUT SHORT BRASS
£ 0.15 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

2 51K1177
MANIFOLD NUT LONG BRASS
£ 0.93 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 13H2934
CLUTCH OIL SEAL UPTO 1992
£ 1.99 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 CE12
CLUTCH OIL SEAL TOOL
£ 17.53 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 88G561
TIMING COVER OIL SEAL
£ 1.67 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 C-AHT54
OIL PIPE HITECH CENTRAL PICKUP GEARBOX
£ 20.81 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 C-BTA166
DIFFERENTIAL PIN UPGRADE (SEE 22G2583 ALSO)
£ 12.03 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 RC40-012
RC40 REAR BOX MILD STEEL CENTRE EXIT LARGE BORE
£ 49.61 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 RC40-013
RC40 MIDDLE BOX & DOWNPIPE MILD STEEL
£ 32.90 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 MS31
BATTERY BOX SALOON NON GENUINE
£ 13.88 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 CZH3353MS
VALANCE REAR WITH METRIC LAMP FIXING NUTS
£ 10.17 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 MS27R
PANEL SILL INNER PANEL R/H NON GENUINE
£ 5.69 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 GFE166
OIL FILTER GFE443 SPIN ON FX004 delphi
£ 2.08 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 56-9330
K&N HIF6/44 CONE K&N FILTER
£ 34.34 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 C-GRH002
HOSE SILICON KIT (TOP&BOTTOM HOSE+HEATER HOSES)1275cc >PRE89
£ 56.45 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 C-GRH247
RADIATOR TOP SILICON HOSE FOR 1275 except 1275GT
£ 0.00 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 C-GRH240
RADIATOR LOWER SILICON HOSE ,ALL MINI PRE 1989 INC CLUBMAN
£ 0.00 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 C-GRH1006
HEATER HOSE SILICON 13MMBORE SINGLE LENGTH 1 METRE LONG
£ 0.00 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 C-GRH1007
HEATER HOSE SILICON 13MM BORE,SINGLE LENGTH 1.2METRE LONG
£ 0.00 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 88G221
HEATER TAP GASKET
£ 0.38 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 OA
ADAPTOR FOR OIL GAUGE PIPE
£ 1.48 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 C-AHT9
OIL GAUGE PIPE BRAIDED 4'LONG
£ 10.17 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 AJM601
MANIFOLD GASKET INLET/EXHAUST
£ 0.77 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)



1 C-AEG481
CLUTCH DIAPHRAGM ORANGE
£ 26.85 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 PSF10003

[mike.]

and some more, wouldn't all fit in one post




1 R24
DASHPOT COVER HIF
£ 5.00 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

5 BH605141
CLUTCH HOUSING TO BLOCK BOLT 1.75"x5/16"unf
£ 0.23 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 C-AJJ4025COMP
CLUTCH HOSE BRAIDED ONE PIECE,CLUTCH MASTER TO SLAVE CYL
£ 10.41 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 MSSK050
GEARBOX ROD CHANGE ANTI OIL LEAK SEAL KIT
£ 3.77 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 TP
OIL GAUGE "T" PIECE
£ 2.50 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 TIM039
POD FOR HOLDING 52MM GAUGES
£ 4.86 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

4 GFK3212
NUT PLAIN 5/16UNF(FNZ505)
£ 0.04 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 MSSK001
GEARBOX STABILISER L/H KIT
£ 13.38 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

4 CHS2514
STUD HS4/HIF CARB+12G103 HOUSING (5/16")
£ 0.49 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

3 C-STR630
STABILISER BUSH POLYURETHANE ENGINE KIT
£ 3.70 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 12G103
THERMOSTAT HOUSING ALL MINI EXCEPT LARGER BORE TYPE
£ 5.55 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)





1 22A747
FLYWHEEL BOLT PRE VERTO
£ 5.00 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 88G508
FLYWHEEL KEYWAY - PRE VERTO (MADE IN EN24T STEEL)
£ 6.94 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 22A1155
FLYWHEEL BOLT LOCKTAB PRE VERTO
£ 2.54 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)





1 C-AHT279
HEAD STUD/NUT & WASHER KIT (9 STUD KIT ONLY)
£ 20.01 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

4 CAM150
HEAD STUD BLOCK TO CYLINDER HEAD LONG (5.656" long)
£ 0.00 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

5 CAM151
HEAD STUD BLOCK TO HEAD SHORT 4"long unc 3/8"
£ 0.00 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

9 51K1193
HEAD NUT CYLINDER HEAD
£ 0.00 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 C-AHT288
HEAD WASHER SET (10)
£ 0.00 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 C-AHT85
ACCELERATOR CABLE NYLON SLEEVED EXTRA LONG
£ 4.73 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

8 SH604031
RADIATOR & TIMING COVER BOLTS 1/4"unf
£ 0.75 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 CHM373
HEATER CABLE PLASTIC KNOB
£ 6.01 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 5L1137
ENGINE EARTH STRAP (YMS10090)
£ 2.68 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 21A2329
CHOKE CABLE RUBBER TYPE, PULL&TWIST, UP TO 1987
£ 5.54 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

4 12A1211
WASHER FOR MANIFOLD THICK TYPE
£ 0.28 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 ACC5062
CARBURETTOR LEVER PIN
£ 1.39 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

1 22A180MS
CLUTCH PLUNGER PRE VERTO
£ 6.11 (Taxable) (7.5% discount included)

[AntsClubby]

That must have taken you ages mate! Thank you! Fair bit longer than the list i had!ha!
Ill have a good look through it and make a revised one of my own

Am i right to think my 1275 as std has around 60bhp? Id be happy with 70/75 really, be quite nippy in a 600kg car i rekon!
Im just after a nice base engine that i can add to over time.
Im going to upgrade the cam to the SW5 duplex kit from swiftune i think, its £280 but comes with all the extras and a shiny new oil pump too...would this be a good choice?

Also Im sure i read that the std pistons ive got no longer have rings made for them...this would mean new pistons then, plus also maybe a rebore? Is it necessary to change the rings if they look ok or is it a stupid not to do thing?

Cheers

[mike.]

The SW5 is a good cam for a daily driver. Again it depends on your budget, you could get more power with a slightly better cam, and still retain good drive ability; but then a better cam needs better breathing so more money would need to be spent on the head.

You might be able to pick up a kent 266 and MG metro cam cheaper and get similar results to the SW5. My engine started off as an MG metro unit, which supposedly have 72bhp as standard. The mods they have over a standard 1275 are the MG cam and slightly bigger valves in the head.

The piston rings, i'm not sure about the availability of 1275 std bore rings but if the bores are in really good condition then you can get away with reusing the cam rings without a rebore. With my block, I could still see the original hone marks in the block with no rough wear I could feel with my finger nail, so I just reused my same rings and pistons.

[Cooperman]

If you don't need a re-bore you will probably get a new set of rings for those Rover pistons from F.W. Thornton who are based in Shrewsbury. You will need to call them and they nare very helpful. Never re-fit old rings to a high-ish mileage engine.
However, for confidence a new set of 21253 pistons in the next size up and a re-bore would be best.
With regard to the big-end caps, they are easy to get the right way round so long as you've not mixed up which cap goes with which rod, Each rod and cap have a small cut-out on the mating face wherre the bearing shell tang is held. These always go on the same edge as each other.
The other cap it's possible to get the wrong way round is the centre main bearing cap. The numbers cast into that cap go the same way as the numbers on the two main bearing caps at each end, and they will only fit on one way.

Once all the basic machining is completed you do what is known as a 'trial build' and see how it all goes together. You measure the crankshaft end float to ensure it is within limits, check that the pistons come to the top of the block at TDC and, if not, whether the block needs the deck skimming (and if so by how much) to bring the pistons right to the top. Then you strip it again, have any final machining done and complete the basic engine assembly.

At trial build & final build stages absolute cleanliness is vital. Don't expect the machine shop to send back completely clean parts.

We are all here to answer your questions as you go along.