170 replies to this topic

[Reddimini]

Hi everyone. I'm helping with the Gaydon show and want to try to get it back to it's best. Thank you for all the comments on here, be they good or bad. I've printed it all off and will be talking to Gaydon about how to fix all the issues for next year. If anyone wants to send me comments or suggestions separately then please do. My email address is [email protected]

[mm man]

I'm sorry that you did not have a good experience but I think on the Concours front, you were an exception. It appears that there was a problem with the classes that neither the organisers or you picked up on before the day. Personally, in your position, I would have queried the class position before I booked to ensure that my Mini was in the correct class if I felt is wasn't clear. You say that you have shown before therefore you are not a beginner, but there no classes for modified in the Concours classes so I would have checked that I could show a modified Mini in the Concours class. However, I am sure that the organisers will review the class situation in light of this and also know the manage Minis that are entered in the wrong class to ensure that they are properly transferred from class to class (if it is possible) without getting lost.

I know that some people do use Concours and Show 'n' shine primarily to get a good parking space, be in the centre of the show and to be easily able to talk to other enthusiasts. I feel that if showing in Show'n'shine wasn't your primary reason for entering, possibly you should not have entered. Personally, I expect anyone who enters Concours and Show'n'shine to compete in good spirit, i.e. to compete (the primary reason for being there) but to do so in good spirit (chatting to other competitors and enthusiasts as you clean). Personally, I would not attend any of the classes (Concours or Show'n'shine) without a reasonable cleaning kit as how else would I be able to complete? My understanding was that the Show'n'shine classes were supposed to be a beginners class for the owner, not so the owner could show to a lesser standard (not so clean).

I feel that your Mini and bike were interesting and visible enough to be parked anywhere in the show and still get plenty of attention and enthusiasts coming to speak to you.

Dave Hollis told me about his Show'n'shine plans last year and I think they sound like a great idea and would suit you well. There are people who want to show their Mini but not in a Concours type way. Gaydon's Show'n'shine is not the same idea as Dave's as the point of Gaydon's class is to encourage new people into Concours, and to be judged by judges not fellow enthusiasts. I don't think these two Show'n'shines can be compared as they are quite different with different aims. BMC also run excellent, thorough and competitive Concours classes.

Personally, we find the Mini Concours scene as it stands is good and does the job, to grade Minis. Although all judges look for slightly different things when they judge, broadly speaking the same high standard Minis win. While you get comments like it's always the same Minis winning and that's boring, people don't complain about same football teams, tennis players, dogs (I used to show Bassets) winning. If they win time and time again, it is because they are the best.

Our judges at Gaydon were really helpful and told us what they had marked us down on (they also told us what they liked, although we were more interested in their constructive criticism). We know differerent judges have their different likes and dislikes so don't automatically take their advice, but it is invaluable to us to hear it so we can consider it, talk it through we other enthusiasts then use it to improve our Minis.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post, can I please correct you on a few points, either I didn’t convey them clearly enough in my first post or you have made the wrong assumptions! Please forgive me for doing this in list form it’s just because it’s quicker.
Bad experience “you were an exception”
I had at least three other competitors convey their disappointment in one way or another about the concours event, mainly Classes, turnout, atmosphere and Judging times.
Classes “queried before I booked”
I did ring Gaydon before I booked and asked them if I could display my mini as a single entrant, I was told no unless I was part of a bigger club. After I explained what I had I was informed the only option open to me was to go into SnS custom class or the public car park. I guess the guy on the phone wasn’t the organiser of the concours and so may be the organisers in future should of given their contact details instead of going through a third party, i.e the museum.
“Good parking space”
I feel your paragraph on “good parking spaces” was unjust if you are implying this is what I had done. I can assure you this was not the case as I say this was the only option I was given or park in the public car park. What would you have done? Anyway if I have paid my entry fee and have abided by the rules, I am surely entitled to do what I like, as is everyone else!
“Good Spirit”
I total agree with this point and have always stopped to speak to people (too much sometimes if you ask my son’s) I hope that your point on this subject wasn’t just aimed at me just because I have spoken out on my experience! Let’s be honest when people compete, which I have also done and also judged upon outside of the mini scene, competitors do find it sometimes hard to communicate with fellow competitors as they are in competition after all. Normally I have a lot of time for the public and have found that once the judging is complete fellow competitors are more relaxed with each other and overall there is a “good spirit”.
“Cleaning kit”
In my opinion show n shine and concours are two totally different classes. You should not have a SnS and judge it on concours conditions. This should have been billed as concours for beginners! SnS to coin a phrase is exactly what it says on the tin Show and then shine not a full concours clean which this one was judged upon! So for that reason I took what I thought I needed and nothing else. Space in a mini is at a premium and in a boot which is 3inches smaller than others it’s of extra importance only to take the bear minimum. Or though I did see hoovers being passed around in the concours area so maybe not everyone is as prepared as you!
“Judging”
Your point on judging and the comments you hear about” the same one’s winning”, what ever happened to Master Class? The best move up and the rest, including beginners get their chance. Also why not have a judge’s only class? I think the real taboo question here is why the judges are also competitors? This seems to be the point I hear over and over and have done for years .I see that this issue has been talked about before on this forum and you have commented also so it’s a point of concern sorely? I will stick my neck out on this one from my personal experience I parked next to a judge once at a show. Great I thought I will learn what’s it’s all about I was surprised to see the total lack of effort put into the cleaning and prep , then when it came time to be judged the judge came over to the car and the first question asked was what class are you judging? Yours came the reply! Then they just spoke about holidays / friends just chit chat really. I then watched the judge go about their job I was very surprised to see over half the points they look at were not carried out ie underside, boot ,engine in detail ,headlining/ sun visors…. But on other cars in this section including mine all these points where checked! Guess who won the class? And vice versa! I think the point a lot of people find hard to understand and feel they can’t comment on is how can you judge and compete in the same show. Your ref to top football teams and tennis players always winning, imagine the outrage if they fielded their own referee or umpire how can they be impartial?
That brings me back to your point on “good spirit”, after I won my class and best in show at mitp a few years ago at the next show I attended, the same judge (I previously parked next to) couldn’t wait to dis my car within hearing distance of me and my sons, not a very pleasant experience but I bit my lip. I understand everybody is entitled to their own opinion and what you like and are passionate about are other peoples dislike and if you show your car you should expect this. What I didn’t expect was when I got 2^nd place in class at the 50^th birthday show in Birmingham when I went to collect my prize I was the only person that the same judge refused to shack my hand! I guess your face only fits if you’re in the “click”.
Can you guess who didn’t judge my car on Sunday? I hope now you may understand my reasons behind my post and possible my lack of “good spirit” as you put it.
As I say I will still go to show’s with my mini and trailer but will only ever enter the concours if I am not given any other option to show. I guess I have the right to ask not to be judged?
I’m glad to hear you have had nothing but good experiences and hope this continues for you. Wishing you all the best and good luck with your shows in the future.



.

[oltonlad]

i think that cars that constantly win the same trophies all of the time should have a 2 year limit on showing the cars then they have to semi retire the car for 1 season and give them their own area to display for that season (like a current winners area......and not being allowed to compete in concours)

that would give other mini's a chance to enter concours and actually be able to win something and the previous winning cars still get to be displayed.

the fact that the same cars are winning all of the time is putting people off entering their cars for concours.

[freddiefrog]

This could of surely been avoided if you spoke up on the day before the very end? Was your car not offered to be judged at all?

Seems like a overlook I think, don't take it personally I think these things happen sometimes.

I think there was alot of different cars there in concours from last year !!! Not the same CARS winning all the time at all as far as I could see. Anycase the best car on the day wins ...Concours is about competition and standards don't forget that !!!

[Reddimini]

I organise the concours at Gaydon. It was completely my mistake that you weren't on the list, following all the confusion of you entering the beginners class. This was nothing to do with the judge as she was simply working to the list I gave her. She was not competing herself - some of the concours team, including me and your judge, had given our time to judging, forsaking our opportunity to compete ourselves. The judges and myself give our time freely as volunteers to run this event, My name and number was available for anyone wanting to check classes - in fact a couple of people approached me to check before hand.

I apologised to you personally and myself and Gaydon have arranged a refund for you. I fail to see what else we could have done to rectify this.

I apologise again and have contacted Gaydon today to make sure the refund is being processed.

Thank you to all of the other competitors for the excellent feedback we have received. As numbers were high for the concours again this year we plan to revise the split of the classes for next year, as higher numbers justify a greater breakdown of classes going forward.

[mm man]

i think that cars that constantly win the same trophies all of the time should have a 2 year limit on showing the cars then they have to semi retire the car for 1 season and give them their own area to display for that season (like a current winners area......and not being allowed to compete in concours)

that would give other mini's a chance to enter concours and actually be able to win something and the previous winning cars still get to be displayed.

the fact that the same cars are winning all of the time is putting people off entering their cars for concours.

I think something like this used to happen a few years ago , when i won mini in the park the next year i wasn't allowed to enter the concours to stop any claims of favouritism but the organizers (mini mag) sent me 2 free car passes (8 people) and then let me show on the magazine stand. I had a great day!
I do like your idea on a winners display area. This is a bit like the Master classes i have seen at other show's (not mini) but they can still compete against each other, and this then opens up the standard concours class for other competitors to stand a chance.

This could of surely been avoided if you spoke up on the day before the very end? Was your car not offered to be judged at all?

Seems like a overlook I think, don't take it personally I think these things happen sometimes.

I think there was alot of different cars there in concours from last year !!! Not the same CARS winning all the time at all as far as I could see. Anycase the best car on the day wins ...Concours is about competition and standards don't forget that !!!

Yes as i said I did bring this up with the organizer as soon as i realised the judge had finished the last class,someones car has to be judged last and i thought it must be me.Because as i said it was judged in a total random order you couldn't tell who was next.
If it was done say left to right it would of been more apparent that i had been missed and I would have been able to report this earlier.
And no I was not offered to be judged even though the presentation had not taken place.
To be Honest I don't take these things personally as i say it has been going on for a while if you read my last post and you will see i have not said anything but sometimes enough is enough and you have to say somthing or it just carries on! If not to me maybe someone else.

[Cousin Jack]

Oli,

So glad to hear that V208 is now back on the road again. We really need to meet up sometime and photograph V208 & V209 together.

[freddiefrog]

Well Masterclass would be a minefield as you will get custom, standard, trailered cars and whole mixture !!! You can't penallize winning cars for winning they obviously have had more work and effort put into the to win!!! If you lose it would make you more determined to improve your car to win - motivation!
Obviously you are upset you weren't judged but I am sure it was a genuine mistake and at least you get your money back. Next time perhaps make it clear to the judge your car is to be judged before quite late in the day, that way you will never be missed again. Remember judges do give up their free time to judge and its very rare they get any payment! Judges are picked normally after they have acheived some kind of win and have a good knowledge on what to look for! Unfortunately for you, you had a problem on the day but apologises I see have been given I cant see what more else can be done after the event now! Keep your chin up and remember it's only a car show - lol!

[kzxr]

"And no I was not offered to be judged even though the presentation had not taken place."

The organiser offered to get your car judged as there was still time and you said "I don't want it judged."
This has all happened because you tried to enter a beginners class and yet above you say you won car of the day at mitp, hardly a beginner.

[Reddimini]

Correct KZXR - I'm glad someone can bear witness to that. I did offer to have it judged as it wasn't too late, but he refused the offer. I had £10 in my hand ready to give him his refund to but as he turned and walked away as I was trying to offer it I gave up. The Gaydon staff organiser then went to see him to arrange the refund formally by post instead. I'm soory but I don;t know what else we could have done to rectify things.

On another note - yes I do like the idea of a masterclass as a couple of other shows run and it is something we can consider as the show grows. Interesting to note though - I've checked the records and as far as I can tell only one of last year's winning cars also won this year. Out of 10 classes that's quite an interesting statistic. However it is certainly under consideration for next year, along with the review of the classes I previously mentioned. As this concours is growing fast, we can review the class splits year on year with a view to increasing class numbers as appropriate. Remember - this is only the second year of this concours so we have kept is simple and small for the first year, increasing from 8 to 10 classes this year. I'm putting together proposals that, subject to budget and agreement, would include maybe 15 classes next year, splitting by model, year, levels of customisation, much like other established shows do. This could maybe include a Masterclass. Clearly until we had sufficient numbers we couldn't justify a finer split of classes. Watch this space

[MiniLuke]

Perhaps you could get Quentin Wilson to do some judging! He was wandering round looking very interested. Was his mini there?

[Miniholic]

How about an area set aside for people who want to display their cars but aren't interested in concours? It works well at Stanford Hall and often turns up some interesting cars which may otherwise be hidden in the car park or left at home.

[the.stroker]

Im closing this for a short while whilst some IP address checks are carried out

[The Matt]

Re-opened for now. It's good that we're getting feedback to the organisers, let's keep it nice and civil and hopefully we can help organisers improve what needs improving (if anything).

[Reddimini]

Thanks Matt - good to know you take such good care of the forum

Miniholic - yep good idea - we do have some special display areas already and maybe we can do more of that next year. I'll add that to our suggestions list.