)and which one would I need to perform some simple on/off functions (interior lights, power invertor on/off etc.)?
Which toggles to replace rocker switches?
Started by
Snowfruit
, Mar 24 2006 12:30 PM
17 replies to this topic
#1
Snowfruit
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Mini Mad
Posted 24 March 2006 - 12:30 PM
Which of these toggle switches (http://www.maplin.co...o=2360&doy=24m3) do I need to replace the four standard rocker switches (rear screen heater, hazards, lights, can't remember the 4th one )
and which one would I need to perform some simple on/off functions (interior lights, power invertor on/off etc.)?
)and which one would I need to perform some simple on/off functions (interior lights, power invertor on/off etc.)?
#2
minislapper
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Camshaft & Stage Two Head
Posted 24 March 2006 - 02:13 PM
The original rocker switch for the lights is not just on/off so you'd have to consider that if you decided to buy some new switches.
#3
Snowfruit
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Mini Mad
Posted 24 March 2006 - 03:14 PM
yes i'd need an on-off-on one for that particular one. I, however, have no idea what the difference is between single-pole and double-pole and which ones I would need...
#4
syholl
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 06:03 PM
Its not as easy as you may think unfortunately....
The rear screen is just an On/Off single pole switch, the lights are an Off/On/On single pole switch, the brake test switch would either need an LED in the end of it, or a new warning light in the dashboard (or just risk it and do away with the light).
The hazard switch is the important one, as it immobilises the indicators when it is switched on. This is not easy to achieve using a toggle switch. There are ways to do it, with a Double pole double throw type switch and some relays/diodes... Not an easy one though...
The rear screen is just an On/Off single pole switch, the lights are an Off/On/On single pole switch, the brake test switch would either need an LED in the end of it, or a new warning light in the dashboard (or just risk it and do away with the light).
The hazard switch is the important one, as it immobilises the indicators when it is switched on. This is not easy to achieve using a toggle switch. There are ways to do it, with a Double pole double throw type switch and some relays/diodes... Not an easy one though...
#5
Dan
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 07:10 PM
Very easy, you need a four pole double throw changeover switch for the hazards and no extra relay junk.
The very first post I ever made on here was a list of what toggle switches are needed to cover which functions in the car. Search the site for info on switches about the date I joined. You won't be able to find them anywhere as cruddy as Maplin though, you'll need a proper component shop like Farnell or RS. Maplin's for chavs who want neons under their cars and home made alarm systems.
The very first post I ever made on here was a list of what toggle switches are needed to cover which functions in the car. Search the site for info on switches about the date I joined. You won't be able to find them anywhere as cruddy as Maplin though, you'll need a proper component shop like Farnell or RS. Maplin's for chavs who want neons under their cars and home made alarm systems.
Edited by Dan, 24 March 2006 - 07:10 PM.
#6
syholl
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 09:31 PM
Yes, but try getting a 4 pole toggle switch.....! I've certainly never seen one. There aren't any in my RS catalogue, only push button types that look nasty....
I found it much easier to use relays, which gives much greater choice of switch. Particularly if you want all matching ones...
I found it much easier to use relays, which gives much greater choice of switch. Particularly if you want all matching ones...
#7
Dan
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Posted 25 March 2006 - 01:13 PM
RS Components, range of toggle switches including a 4PDT C/O.
You have now!
Sorry to disagree with you Sy but 4PDT switches are pretty common toggles. You are right though that the hard bit is finding a supplier that sells a range with all the functions needed so that they match. The really hard one is the ERA Turbo rear wash/wipe which needs either a DP ON/ON/MOM or a SP ON/ON/MOM A/B/B+C which are both tough to find. Suppliers that sell electrical parts for kit aircraft are a good source for a huge range of toggle switches. Remember that strictly speaking toggle switches in cars need switch gaurds fitted so that they don't form an unacceptable protrusion from the dash.
Like these.
The hazard switch will also need a tell-tale, technically with the correct hazard symbol on it.
Like the ones half way down this page.
Oh, and the master lighting switch is Off/1/1+2 not just Off/On/On.
If you fill a car with relays then you will eventually get pretty severe problems with self induced return currents, especially in large single circuits with lots of relays fitted. Then you start having to fit lots of diodes and resistors to get round that problem and it gets pretty complex. Much easier to get the right switches. People who build Hot Rods in America with lots of relay driven electrics (door poppers, hood lifts etc.) get this problem a lot.
You have now!
Sorry to disagree with you Sy but 4PDT switches are pretty common toggles. You are right though that the hard bit is finding a supplier that sells a range with all the functions needed so that they match. The really hard one is the ERA Turbo rear wash/wipe which needs either a DP ON/ON/MOM or a SP ON/ON/MOM A/B/B+C which are both tough to find. Suppliers that sell electrical parts for kit aircraft are a good source for a huge range of toggle switches. Remember that strictly speaking toggle switches in cars need switch gaurds fitted so that they don't form an unacceptable protrusion from the dash.
Like these.
The hazard switch will also need a tell-tale, technically with the correct hazard symbol on it.
Like the ones half way down this page.
Oh, and the master lighting switch is Off/1/1+2 not just Off/On/On.
If you fill a car with relays then you will eventually get pretty severe problems with self induced return currents, especially in large single circuits with lots of relays fitted. Then you start having to fit lots of diodes and resistors to get round that problem and it gets pretty complex. Much easier to get the right switches. People who build Hot Rods in America with lots of relay driven electrics (door poppers, hood lifts etc.) get this problem a lot.
Edited by Dan, 25 March 2006 - 01:19 PM.
#8
who_loves_the_mini?
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Posted 25 March 2006 - 02:25 PM
would it be possible for someone to put a link up for each of the switches as electrics confuse me.
Im after heated rear screen, fog light, hazards and brake light. Im having MPI stalks so wont need a headlight switch
Id like toggles with warning lights on the end and if possible blue or red covers like you get on fighter jets
thanks
Im after heated rear screen, fog light, hazards and brake light. Im having MPI stalks so wont need a headlight switch
Id like toggles with warning lights on the end and if possible blue or red covers like you get on fighter jets
thanks
#9
Dan
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Posted 25 March 2006 - 02:45 PM
Well firstly hardly any toggles come with LEDs in the shaft. Pretty much only on/off switches which makes it hard to get anything to work properly, especially if electrics is not your thing.
Also, if you use knock off covers with them (they aren't called arming covers, end of the world switches, or anyhing like that. That's all a bit Max Power) then you won't be able to see the lamps!
You can get knock off covers in almost any colour you want, I'll try to dig up a link.
Do you now it's pretty hard to fit the MPI stalks to an earlier steering column? The two fit completely differently.
Heated rear screen and fog lamp are just single pole on/off.
Brake test is single pole on/mom.
Hazards is 4pdt on/on.
The link I placed above contains suitable switches for all of those, you can use an on/mom for the brake test instead of an off/mom. It'll be listed as on/(on). These are 20a continuous rated so they are suitable as the standard switch gear is only 16a.
The link above contains suitable warning lamps for all of those functions except heated screen. I suppose you could use a plain one which matches for the screen in any colour you like. I think you can get sheets of self adhesive symbols from Vehicle Wiring Products which will fit onto the larger (22mm) warning lamps if you want.
I'll try to find some knock offs for you.
Also, if you use knock off covers with them (they aren't called arming covers, end of the world switches, or anyhing like that. That's all a bit Max Power) then you won't be able to see the lamps!
You can get knock off covers in almost any colour you want, I'll try to dig up a link.
Do you now it's pretty hard to fit the MPI stalks to an earlier steering column? The two fit completely differently.
Heated rear screen and fog lamp are just single pole on/off.
Brake test is single pole on/mom.
Hazards is 4pdt on/on.
The link I placed above contains suitable switches for all of those, you can use an on/mom for the brake test instead of an off/mom. It'll be listed as on/(on). These are 20a continuous rated so they are suitable as the standard switch gear is only 16a.
The link above contains suitable warning lamps for all of those functions except heated screen. I suppose you could use a plain one which matches for the screen in any colour you like. I think you can get sheets of self adhesive symbols from Vehicle Wiring Products which will fit onto the larger (22mm) warning lamps if you want.
I'll try to find some knock offs for you.
#10
who_loves_the_mini?
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Posted 25 March 2006 - 03:45 PM
Thanks Dan that would be great.
I am getting the MPI connectors put into a custom loom so thats that one sorted, i have a complete column so shouldnt be too difficult to fit.
The lights on the end are mainly for when they are on in the dark, they will show up if the switch is on, even with the knock on covers on the light will still show
What warning lights do I need for MOT, brake test only or others? the hazard is linked to the indicator light so thats sorted
I am getting the MPI connectors put into a custom loom so thats that one sorted, i have a complete column so shouldnt be too difficult to fit.
The lights on the end are mainly for when they are on in the dark, they will show up if the switch is on, even with the knock on covers on the light will still show
What warning lights do I need for MOT, brake test only or others? the hazard is linked to the indicator light so thats sorted
#11
Dan
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Posted 25 March 2006 - 04:02 PM
You need a tell tale lamp for hazard as well as the two indicator repeaters.
Brake test lamp is needed and fog lamp needs a tell tale. The only one of these switches that doesn't actually require a proper tell tale is the heated screen. Personally I'd fit the tell tale lamps and forget the lit switch toggles but it's up to you.
With the MPi stalks, I'm not worried about the wiring connectors as that's the easy bit. The column, the switches, the steering wheel and how it actually fits to the shell are all physically very different in the MPi. The easiest way to do it is to modify the MPi switch pack to fit the earlier column but it's still tricky. I don't know if you are but you shouldn't be using an MPi steering wheel if you don't have airbag control circuits in the car as an uncontrolled airbag is lethal (since the MPi was never sold in America the airbag system is actually quite good 'because it's not federal spec and so it will kill you if it goes off at the wrong time) and the earlier wheel doesn't fit the MPi column.
Still looking. I have found loads of knock off safety covers in different colours but no-one that's selling a good range. Just one or two colours each.
Have found them in red, green, yellow, blue, the same in translucent, electric pink and blue, billet aluminium, anodised billet aluminium red blue green yellow purple and black, carbon fibre, black, clear......
There's loads out there but mostly they come attached to cheap switches that won't last long in use. There is someone that sells a big range of colours of covers only but I can't remember who they are.
Brake test lamp is needed and fog lamp needs a tell tale. The only one of these switches that doesn't actually require a proper tell tale is the heated screen. Personally I'd fit the tell tale lamps and forget the lit switch toggles but it's up to you.
With the MPi stalks, I'm not worried about the wiring connectors as that's the easy bit. The column, the switches, the steering wheel and how it actually fits to the shell are all physically very different in the MPi. The easiest way to do it is to modify the MPi switch pack to fit the earlier column but it's still tricky. I don't know if you are but you shouldn't be using an MPi steering wheel if you don't have airbag control circuits in the car as an uncontrolled airbag is lethal (since the MPi was never sold in America the airbag system is actually quite good 'because it's not federal spec and so it will kill you if it goes off at the wrong time) and the earlier wheel doesn't fit the MPi column.
Still looking. I have found loads of knock off safety covers in different colours but no-one that's selling a good range. Just one or two colours each.
Have found them in red, green, yellow, blue, the same in translucent, electric pink and blue, billet aluminium, anodised billet aluminium red blue green yellow purple and black, carbon fibre, black, clear......
There's loads out there but mostly they come attached to cheap switches that won't last long in use. There is someone that sells a big range of colours of covers only but I can't remember who they are.
#12
who_loves_the_mini?
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Posted 25 March 2006 - 04:16 PM
I have to decide on somewhere to put the warning lights then, maybe along the top of a centre console would be good.
On the steering wheel front, I am using an ex display steering wheel which is exactly the same as a normal mpi one but has no electrics in it for the air bag, so it just has the wheel and the cover section in the middle. This should be perfectly safe to use as there isnt anything to go off
I dont mind buying cheap switches with decent knock off covers and then buying decent switches as i am only buying 4 or 5 so wont be a huge expense really
On the steering wheel front, I am using an ex display steering wheel which is exactly the same as a normal mpi one but has no electrics in it for the air bag, so it just has the wheel and the cover section in the middle. This should be perfectly safe to use as there isnt anything to go off
I dont mind buying cheap switches with decent knock off covers and then buying decent switches as i am only buying 4 or 5 so wont be a huge expense really
#13
Snowfruit
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Mini Mad
Posted 27 March 2006 - 11:22 AM
So would this one suit the hazards - taken from the RS site, Click Here - IP67 std 4PDT on-on toggle switch,20A
And would this one suit the master lighting switch - IP67 std 4PDT on-off-on toggle switch
And would this one suit the master lighting switch - IP67 std 4PDT on-off-on toggle switch
#14
Guess-Works.com
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Posted 27 March 2006 - 11:35 AM
To get round the problem of having to find an Off-on-on(1+2) for the lights, I actually used two off-on toggles in the end ( one for sides and one for main ) then wired the double pole on the main to power the side lights aswell... worked quite neatly, but do label the switches other wise it confuses the MOT man...
#15
Dan
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Posted 27 March 2006 - 12:16 PM
Congratulations Snowfruit, you've managed to find the same range of switches as I have linked to above!
For hazards, yes.
For headlights, no.
As I said above it needs to be OFF/ON/ON 0/A/A+B or (as Guessworks says) two seperate toggles for side and headlamps. ON/OFF/ON has the off in the middle, with circuits on when you knock the switch either up or down but never both circuits at the same time.
For hazards, yes.
For headlights, no.
As I said above it needs to be OFF/ON/ON 0/A/A+B or (as Guessworks says) two seperate toggles for side and headlamps. ON/OFF/ON has the off in the middle, with circuits on when you knock the switch either up or down but never both circuits at the same time.
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