45 replies to this topic

[John Clayton]

I have an '86 Mini rally car and I would like to run it in the new Historic rally class for 82-86 cars (it starts in 2013). However, any mods to the cars have to be 'period' i.e. if a MkII Escort has modified brakes then the owner has to prove that the mod is the same as those run by similar cars in that era. People prove the above by showing contemporary photos, parts catalogues or magazine articles etc. from the relevant period as evidence.

My Mini has a Beam frame and coilovers (instead of the normal subframe/rubber cones) and so I need some evidence from before 1987 that shows a Mini were modified in this manner. Can anyone help, please?

Old mini or CCC mags, Clive Trickey books etc. would probably do it?


More info below...


REAR SUSPENSION

Beam frame[1]

http://www.minispare...84&prod_id=2545

£138.00 (inc VAT)

http://www.minispare...84&prod_id=2538

£306 (inv VAT) with coilovers as well

http://www.force-rac...ear-suspension/

£480 Titanium Rear Beam assembly 3.6kg (also in Steel £220 5.7kg)

[1] This Mini has a ‘Beam Frame’ – a ‘Beam Axle’ is somewhat different.

[mini13]

there are details on beams in How to modify your mini by Vizard, i think that book dates back to the 70's

[JustSteve]

there are details on beams in How to modify your mini by Vizard, i think that book dates back to the 70's

I believe he only covered beam axles though, not 'frames' like the OP is talking about.

EDIT:
As the book was infront of me anyway- The beam AXLE is on pages 158-160 but I cant see any reference to what people call a beam frame.

Edited by JustSteve, 01 December 2012 - 11:58 AM.

[Ivor Badger]

the beam frame was in common use by the early 70s. John Maguire used to sell a kit with fabricated rear arms by 75, though I am not sure if its really suitable for rally use. Try Longman's 70s catalogue.

[Ethel]

You could ask Minispares etc how long they've been selling theirs. DV does mention beam frames in his book, along with his beam axle, I think.

Speedex made one

[Cooperman]

John, I'm sure the regulations say 'used in rallying' before the cut-off date. Beams were used in racing before that, but as they are not really suitable for hard rallying I can't think of anyone who would have used one. Remember, Minis dropped out of rallying when they became less competitive so it is unlikely anyone would have used one with such substantial suspension mods.
Period mods are always hard to substantiate when it's not homologated mods and I recall a question about triple Webers on a Mk.1 Triumph 2500PI. That was solved by looking at the cars as entered on the 1967 RAC but that was an event which was cancelled the night before. As the cars had been scrutineered and the crews had 'signed on' the mod was allowed as 'period'.
Will such a beam on a rally Mini be strong enough?

[Artful Dodger]

If you go ahead I'm sure I have a ccc mag that has a mini with a rear beam conversion. Pm me:)

[John Clayton]

Thanks guys. I just spotted this thread which is also of interest...

http://www.theminifo...m-for-rallying/

[John Clayton]

Just got this reply from the Eligibility Scrutineer:


Good evening Mr Clayton.
You are right any mods must be backed by documentary evidence, we can
only accept period evidence which is rallying, any other evidence would
not be accepted.

I hope i have answered your question and if i can be of further help
please do not hesitate to contact me.




best regards

john cooper

Edited by John Clayton, 04 December 2012 - 10:42 PM.

[CMXCVIII]

Did Cyril Bolton's 'Mini Sport of Padiham' road rally car have a beam axle in the mid '70s?

[John Clayton]

Good call -thanks. I have found this doc (Longman's Catalogue) FYI:
http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.uk/pdf/longman.pdf

-on p26 of 33 it has a photo (bottom RHS) of a coilover with the caption:
"We also market coil spring damper units for the rear of a Racing Mini"

[Cooperman]

I can't think of anyone who used a beam rear axle and coils 'in period' for rallying. I don't think Cyril Bolton, whom I knew well and who was a direct competitor, had a beam/coils. His Mini was very competitive though and he did very well.
Why do you want to use a beam rear end when the basic rear sub-frame is so strong and the rubber cone springs are progressive rising-rate springs with exactly the right rate?
On a rally car you really don't want the back to be too light or the rear bump rebound can send the car into a nasty sideways flicking movement and then it will easily roll.

[rally1380]

Try CCC magazine December 1974

You are looking for a car (reg J 279) driven by Pat Ryan and prepped by Blazespeed

Article is called Von Ryans Express.

I asked exactly the same question to someone at HRCR and they suggested prepping my car to Pat Ryans spec.

Personnaly i'm sticking with the original subframe for strength as i don't think the mini's rear is up to much (strength wise) without the rear subframe. Different for tarmac events, but for rough stuff i prefer the idea of good old fashioned subframes.

If you need a photocopy or scanned image let me know.

[Ivor Badger]

Someone certainly did the 76 Tour of Mull with a coil spring rear suspensionon their mini, only I can't remember who it was.

[bikerjohn]

The Good news is that I can provide you proof...... The bad is that I can't get it till January when I'm in the UK..

Back in 1982 there was a magazine called Auto Performance it may of even been the 1st edition, it had an article on the "Ultimate Rally Mini" which features a Blue Mini Clubman with a beam frame on the rear, you may also get some joy with looking For Mini's with Mini Marcos kit car rear beams which were about in the 70's

Hope this helps, John