45 replies to this topic

[bikerjohn]

I think it might of been this edition

http://www.flickr.co...N05/6602540659/

[John Clayton]

Gents, I'm impressed! thanks v much for all the tips -there are some remarkably knowledgeable people on this forum

Cooperman -the only reason that I have coilovers is because the car was like this when I bought it (and it would be a massive amount of work to put it back to rubber cones/subframe).

Try CCC magazine December 1974

You are looking for a car (reg J 279) driven by Pat Ryan and prepped by Blazespeed

Article is called Von Ryans Express.

If you need a photocopy or scanned image let me know.

Yes please -that would be great -do post it on here if you can.

If it's what I need then I'll hunt down an original copy via eBay

Edited by John Clayton, 12 December 2012 - 10:37 PM.

[rally1380]

Hi John.

Will sort out a scanned image as soon as i can for you but i'm sure it's what you are after. It is a little grainy though....it is a 70's magazine after all!

[rally1380]

Think this might be what you are looking for......

[John Clayton]

Outstanding -thanks! Does it say that the car pictured has competed in rallying?

[Cooperman]

I see that my old friend Andy Dawson did an article on Avenger preparation in the same edition. I did the RAC Int. with him in an Avenger.

If it was Pat Ryan's car then it was almost certainly used for rallying.

[rally1380]

There was no mention of it actually competing as it was a write up on the car itself.

The reason i came across the car was because i contacted the HRCR technical person with regards to building a historic mini and he replied saying his son was doing the same and building a replica of the Pat Ryan mini saying this was the ultimate in mini rally evolution.

Have you checked out the HRCR tech page? Because if they are ok'ing stuff for me to use on a 70's mini, then surely it would be ok for you to use?

[John Clayton]

Ah, "HRCR Tech page", you say? I wasn't even aware of it!

However, here it is:
http://www.hrct.co.u...ategory-1-mini/
[beam frame's not allowed]

http://www.hrct.co.u...ategory-2-mini/
"Rear. Beam axle with coil over shock absorbers. Adjustable Hi Lo´s. Non adjustable camber brackets. Rear anti/roll bar."


http://www.hrct.co.u...ategory-3-mini/
[beam frame's not allowed -however, Paul said that it would be a grey area presumable because the beam frame wasn't homologated?]



"Modifications are only allowed if they were available before 1.1.68 (Cat 1) in the case of Historic Rally Cars and before 1.1.75 (Cat 2) in the case of Post Historic Rally Cars. Category 3 is open to Rally cars registered and homologated in Groups 1, 2, 3, or 4 between 1.1.75 and 31.12.81 and can only run to the relevant make and model Homologated specification."



However, it does say:
Permitted modifications supported by documented evidence

My initial reaction was "Why do I have to root out the documentary evidence if the HRCR have already authorised the relevant mod (which can only have come after SEEING documentary evidence)!" However, I've just spoken to Paul Loveridge who runs the above site and he confirmed that it is only mods that are NOT listed on the website that need to have documentary evidence with them.

Edited by John Clayton, 14 December 2012 - 03:25 PM.

[rally1380]

Yeh i think it was John who i contacted.

It does seem odd that a rear beam is ok for a cat. 2 car, but no mention in the cat. 3 section.....and cat. 2 mods pre date those of cat 3 so how come you can't use a rear beam??? (i hope that makes sense???)

[Cooperman]

Cats 1 & 2 cater for earlier cars which are allowed to run proven modifications in the UK on Historic and Post-Historic. Thus cars can represent those used on national & club rallies in the UK which didn't require homologation. With International Historics the mods have to be as homologated in Groups 1 & 2 in the case of a Mini.
For post 1975 cars the UK regs mirror the international regs in that only homologated parts are allowed, so that rules out beam axles as they were never a production option.

[rally1380]

Cats 1 & 2 cater for earlier cars which are allowed to run proven modifications in the UK on Historic and Post-Historic. Thus cars can represent those used on national & club rallies in the UK which didn't require homologation. With International Historics the mods have to be as homologated in Groups 1 & 2 in the case of a Mini.
For post 1975 cars the UK regs mirror the international regs in that only homologated parts are allowed, so that rules out beam axles as they were never a production option.

So does that mean John is up a creek without a paddle regarding his rear beam?

[rally1380]

Cats 1 & 2 cater for earlier cars which are allowed to run proven modifications in the UK on Historic and Post-Historic. Thus cars can represent those used on national & club rallies in the UK which didn't require homologation. With International Historics the mods have to be as homologated in Groups 1 & 2 in the case of a Mini.
For post 1975 cars the UK regs mirror the international regs in that only homologated parts are allowed, so that rules out beam axles as they were never a production option.

So does that mean John is up a creek without a paddle regarding his rear beam?

Or needs to get a pre 75 car and run a beam in post historics?

[Cooperman]

That's certainly how it reads. Paul Loveridge will be able to be definitive on this, but the beam axle was never offered as a factory fitted optional as-new component. The same applies to carbon or GRP flip fronts, vented discs, 4-pot callipers, coil-over front springs, etc. None of those could be ordered from the factory to be delivered on new cars and made in the minimum production quantities specified for Gp.1 or Gp.2, so they are not allowed on post-'75 rally cars in historic events.
I wonder how a 1275 engine is allowed in post-'75 historic category except in a 1275GT which was, I think, only homologated with a single SU carb. Group 2 allowed a larger carb so long as it could be fitted to the original inlet manifold without an intermediary device (i.e. an adaptor plate).The Homologation Papers will need to be studied on this.

[rally1380]

Not sounding too good then. Makes me happy about both my car being cat 2's then (sorry John, i know this doesn't help you)

But...John wants to compete in a new 82 - 86 class....would this later class be any different or more 'lenient' regarding the beam?

One plus point of this later class would be that A+ blocks can be used...no hunting out an expensive A series block!

[John Clayton]

I'm also investigating this new series for 81-86 cars:

http://www.racrallyc...Regulations.htm

Series 4 - I'm told that compliance with FIA Appendix K can be quite a nightmare

Series 6 - This class is for cars that mainly comply with MSA regs (inc having only homologated parts) -but there is a bit of latitude for non-compliant parts

Series 7 - This class has a lot more latitude for cars with more modern parts (or parts that otherwise don't comply). THIS IS THE MAIN ROUTE FOR MY CAR, I RECKON (although the amount of tuning it allows will make the competition pretty stiff -e.g. Escorts with Millington engines!)