26 replies to this topic

[richw911]

Any one know anywhere cheaper than moss for a made up kit?

http://www.moss-euro...teIndexID=21365

Before anyone says I know it is easy to make one but this is not for me

[dklawson]

The Moss kit appears to be offered at a reasonable price. If that is too much for your current budget, consider searching eBay. I am sure there will be some Chinese vendors offering kits for less (including shipping). The advantage of buying from Moss is that you can contact them directly and easily if you need support or have warranty issues.

[Wise Old Elf]

An inline fuse, 2 relays and some wire. £35 seems alot.

I would just buy your own and wire it up.

[CityCharlie]

It's not *that* terrible a deal. It is all good and well saying it's expensive, but I would not trust a number of mates with electrics and they deal with electrics now and again via work!

Assuming you bought the stuff from the high street I reckon you would be looking at £12 for relays, a little more for a tidy holder to save it dancing around the engine bay. To make it up so that you can revert back to the original loom (yes I know it may seem crazy, but there are a number of chaps who are sticklers for originality) it would most likely cost you around £20 all in in for parts + time in making the stuff up.

If you are not too competent with wires you could end up with more issues as I have seen many a person do (the favourite of mine being people saving £10 in order to butcher a stock factory loom in order to fit their new CD player (having your radio turn on when putting the lights on anyone? Twisted wires with minimal shielding?...). Maybe I am being a little demoralising, but shoddy electrics in a car are a real hate of mine and seem to be rife in the classic car world.

[tiger99]

I recommend being VERY careful about what you do to your headlight wiring. If they fail completely when driving on a dark road at night, a serious accident is very likely. In particular, it is both illegal and dangerous to have a single fuse which will kill both lights if it blows.

[Cooperman]

I recommend being VERY careful about what you do to your headlight wiring. If they fail completely when driving on a dark road at night, a serious accident is very likely. In particular, it is both illegal and dangerous to have a single fuse which will kill both lights if it blows.

Quite right. You need 'fail-safe' wiring which requires one relay per beam, that's 4 relays in all, plus 4 fuses, one per main beam and one per dip beam. That's the only safe way.

[charie t]

it is both illegal and dangerous to have a single fuse which will kill both lights if it blows.

The standard setup has one feed, is that illegal?

[1984mini25]

Plus how would you lose all lights if one relay/fuse fails?
If all the wiring both original and additional is all working, there isn't a problem.

[Cooperman]

If you wire up the headlights with a set of relays and fuses, should a main-beam fuse blow and there is only one fuse then all the main beam lights go out, so you need two relays and two fuses for the main beams, one each. The same applies to the dipped beams. That is 'fail-safe' electrical design and is the correct way to do it, as Tiger will, I'm sure, confirm.
The original wiring is another matter, but one might assume that the reason for wanting to 'relay' the headlights is to allow for up-graded more powerful bulbs.

[dklawson]

Richw911 (the OP) was not asking about legal and best practices for making headlight relay kits. His inquiry was for a low cost alternative to Moss. He specifically said he knew about making his own and that was not what he wanted to do in this case.

The thread has taken different direction and I do not want to prolong that. However, I feel obligated to make the following points. I will start by saying I am neither familiar with the wiring for late model Minis nor am I versed in codes and standards applied in the U.K. I leave details of that for others such as Tiger.

Historically EARLY Minis had headlights on non-fused circuits with no relays. There were problems with reliability, mainly involving the dash switches. The addition of relays is not always done so one can use more powerful headlights. It is also done to protect old (no longer available or rare) switches and to allow the lights to be "brighter" through the use of more direct, larger gage wiring that avoids the contact resistance in the switch.

I do not agree that 4 fuses and 4 relays is the only acceptable safe solution. I cannot say that this applies in all cases but I believe you will find that MOST car makers have 2 circuits with 2 relays and 2 fuses much like the common headlight relay kits offer. With the 2 fuse, 2 relay setup your system will be much like it is today... lose 1 fuse or relay and you lose both headlights (high or low) when that component fails... which is what your car would do today with standard wiring.

If you decide to make your own 4-circuit relay panel, that will be fine and there is nothing wrong with it. However, you will also need to make new headlight harnesses long enough to reach from each bulb to your new relay panel. The existing Mini headlight wiring will be joined behind the slam panel and each existing individual harness will be too short to reach a common, remotely mounted relay panel. In short, making a 4 fuse, 4 relay panel will be more involved than buying a 2 fuse, 2 relay kit. Obviously it will cost more.

Back on topic. Does anyone have any vendor suggestions for a less expensive headlight relay kit with 2 fuse and 2 relays like the Moss kit?

[lrostoke]

This is for driving lights

http://www.vehicle-w...ntlamps.php#drv

2 of those would do the trick

[richw911]

Thanks for all the info and input on this guys - As said I know about the safety issues with fuses relays and headlights but its always good to have everyones opinion on the subject.

Irostoke thanks for the link too

[Mini Manannán]

If you wire up the headlights with a set of relays and fuses, should a main-beam fuse blow and there is only one fuse then all the main beam lights go out, so you need two relays and two fuses for the main beams, one each. The same applies to the dipped beams. That is 'fail-safe' electrical design and is the correct way to do it, as Tiger will, I'm sure, confirm.
The original wiring is another matter, but one might assume that the reason for wanting to 'relay' the headlights is to allow for up-graded more powerful bulbs.

 

Holy thread resurrection Batman!

 

 Confused! Are we saying the relays in the OP aren't adequate and we need twice as many relays?  I can't find a kit or wiring diagram for 4 relays, I just want to upgrade from my sealed beams to H4s.

[Dan]

They are up to the job, but having one relay running both lamps can lead to disaster if it fails at the wrong moment. Of course the dip switch has only one set of contacts so the system isn't fail safe, and no car's lamp circuit is, and try as I might I can't find the clause in the C&U that apparently makes commonly powered lamps illegal, but there is a safety implication to consider. It's far, far better to use two relays. The wiring is no more complex really, just have the trigger wire running two relays in parallel and connect one lamp to each. Using micro-relays will save space.

Edited by Dan, 28 May 2014 - 12:14 PM.

[Mini Manannán]

Cheers Dan, don't suppose you have a wiring diagram for a four relay set-up?  I can follow instructions but I can't write them.  Not where electrickery's involved anyway