89 replies to this topic

[duffman]

I would point out that the vast majority of the shows you have a problem with are not on channels that receive any licence money. I dislike all the talent shows and soaps too but you can't expect anyone to limit their audience to the extent they only make stuff certain small groups like to watch. In fact if it weren't for the licence the BBC would be more or less identical to ITV as all the bosses of both are really interested in is copying each other to steal viewers. It's only the charter that forces the BBC to make a broader range of programming and the charter only exists because of the licence. Ever tried watching TV in the US? It's impossible, we really do only get the cream of what they produce.

Also I think it's been pointed out more than enough times in the thread that not having a licence because you don't use licensed TV is not the same as stealing TV. But I think Duffman might be surprised how many of the channels are also on free to air DTB which makes them licensed channels.

Sorry i missed this one. as i said in the earlier post, There have been quite a few cases of people blocking BBC channels from their TV's and winning court cases as it only the BBC that receives the money. I know there are a lot of 'free to air' but you'd be surprised how many channels are subscription, there are also a hell of a lot of 'free sky channels' which are only free with a subscription and to be honest 90% of those are crap too but i'm not being charged extra for NOT watching them. The TV's daily routine consists of Disney breakfast club in a morning, everyone goes to work/school, the TV is not allowed on until the kids have completed their homework, then its straight onto sky1 for endless episodes of Simpsons as the kids love it, then at 8 its switched over to discovery, discovery science, discovery history, discovery shed, nat geo (+1 too) etc etc for programming i enjoy which is educational, entertaining and constructive. that is how my TV goes pretty much every day so when im back in the house from tinkering outside i can watch something that requires thought and can increase your knowledge whilst being entertained.
May sound boring for some but that's what happens and i enjoy it, and pay for it. IF on the other hand you enjoy all the stuff thats broadcast on other channels, thats your choice and you pay for it but my argument is that i don't watch it but still have to pay for it because THEY can't prove i don't watch other channels. its the principle not the money.

[duffman]

It can be done on a set but as far as i am aware they cannot do it to a sky+ box, this is my point, not all 'free to view channels' are covered by the licence (unless this has changed recently) as there have been cases where people have been to court and proved there set has been modified so i can not receive BBC channels.

Like I said:

The thing is iirc the bbc are either in partnership with sky or own shares in sky, anyway they closed that loophole. After someone actually went to court and won because they had modified there set so you couldn't receive terrestrial channels only sky........

yeah, what i ment was, you can do it to a TV but cannot to a sky box as it voids the warranty of the box and possibly the contract with sky as information is sent back and forth through the phone line and/or router and the sky box could cause an error in their system but i have yet to check with sky if this is the case as once the warranty has expired on the sky box i may have it done by an engineer so it won't receive terrestrial TV

[Deathrow]

Before I start with my actual post I'd just like to point out this is under the watchful eye of the Admin team and TMF does not condone acts of fraud.

duffman, flaming is against the rules and you should feel lucky not to have already received a warning.

Sadly I think a lot of the rules for when you need to have a TV license are quite confusing and I think it's more often than not people don't understand them, myself included.

My understanding is that if I watch something at the same time as it is being broadcast (be it through a TV using an aerial or through a computer using the internet) I should be paying a TV license fee.

Hang on a minute, i respond to a flaming by flaming back yet i'm the one that's gonna receive a warning?

EDIT: Misread that!

Who flamed you? Instead of flaming back why don't you report it?

[duffman]

Who flamed you? Instead of flaming back why don't you report it?

Because i thought we were grown ups and if ignored they wouldn't get a rise from it, apparently i was wrong and in all honesty when ive seen people that have been reported there was little done to them if at all to be honest and they were up to the same childish antics moments later. it would appear that its becoming increasingly difficult to have an adult conversation/debate on here as most feel the need to ******* someone off rather than offer an informed/educated opinion, as you'll see from previous post, i'm apparently scum, a crook, slimy thief and had my parenting skills questioned etc because i don't want to pay for something i don't use.
I wonder if they would feel the same under different circumstances or in a different situation where they had to pay for something they don't use.
I don't mind paying for anything, I pay for subscription TV, I pay for road tax, MOT and insurance on 3 vehicles, I pay for internet, telephone etc etc (you get the idea) because i USE them, no matter how little, i still use them. that is my point. If the government decided that everyone HAD to pay road tax even if the vehicle was off road (what is now SORN) there would be uproar BUT would they also class themselves as slimy, crooked thieves because they are pay for something they aren't using and looking for a way around it?
This is my point.

Edited by duffman, 14 March 2013 - 03:01 PM.

[Ethel]

There was a time when there was only terrestrial telly from Auntie Beeb and there'd have been no way of discriminating what you watched when ITV came along so, apart from sill needing to fund the BBC, you were required to have a licence regardless of what you watched. I'd guess that the licencing agreement with Sky required them to carry the beeb channels, but even so it probably still comes under the definition of the original regulation simply because the alternatives didn't exist to define.

The internet evolved without telly on it, so a precedent of not needing a licence was created before it became an issue - 'n Tim Berners-Lee said it was for everyone, I heard @ the 'limpics

[duffman]

There was a time when there was only terrestrial telly from Auntie Beeb and there'd have been no way of discriminating what you watched when ITV came along so, apart from sill needing to fund the BBC, you were required to have a licence regardless of what you watched. I'd guess that the licencing agreement with Sky required them to carry the beeb channels, but even so it probably still comes under the definition of the original regulation simply because the alternatives didn't exist to define.

The internet evolved without telly on it, so a precedent of not needing a licence was created before it became an issue - 'n Tim Berners-Lee said it was for everyone, I heard @ the 'limpics

Yeah, i never minded paying for it when i used it at all, it was never an issue. its only over the past few years that i realized i never actually used it.

[Badboytunes]

But i don't do anything illegal so why should i pay. i only ever watch top gear on the iplayer a few hours later as the kids monoplize my TV so why should i pay for a service i don't use, i hardly see it as being crooked, if YOU watch it then YOU pay for it. I don't so why should i have to.

Unfortunatly, the fact remains ( however much you or I dislike it ) that we must have a licence to watch tv. Im not a fan of paying for it but having seen a friend try to "pull a stunt" shall we say, similar in fashion to your idea, our household is covered. he got a huge fine and a suspended sentace for trying to pervert the course of justice. For me Sky is utter *******, full of repeats and every program ( except your favourite bbc channels ) are interupted by an advert after 8 or so mins. Hence we have cancelled our subscription.

Most kids spend their time in front of tv's, games consoles pc's ect, ( my neice included ). They will learn more "doing things", a bit like I had to before all the electronic stuff was invented lol.

Im not going to question your parenting skills, call you a thief, scum or similar, but if you got caught and prosecuted, i wouldnt give any sympathy.......

Interesting debate :)

[duffman]

But i don't do anything illegal so why should i pay. i only ever watch top gear on the iplayer a few hours later as the kids monoplize my TV so why should i pay for a service i don't use, i hardly see it as being crooked, if YOU watch it then YOU pay for it. I don't so why should i have to.

Unfortunatly, the fact remains ( however much you or I dislike it ) that we must have a licence to watch tv. Im not a fan of paying for it but having seen a friend try to "pull a stunt" shall we say, similar in fashion to your idea, our household is covered. he got a huge fine and a suspended sentace for trying to pervert the course of justice. For me Sky is utter *******, full of repeats and every program ( except your favourite bbc channels ) are interupted by an advert after 8 or so mins. Hence we have cancelled our subscription.

Most kids spend their time in front of tv's, games consoles pc's ect, ( my neice included ). They will learn more "doing things", a bit like I had to before all the electronic stuff was invented lol.

Im not going to question your parenting skills, call you a thief, scum or similar, but if you got caught and prosecuted, i wouldnt give any sympathy.......

Interesting debate :)

To be honest, i wouldn't expect any, i fully understand the legal implications if they could prove i was watch their stuff.
I haven't actually tried this, and as per the original post, which most have failed to actually read, i was asking if anyone else had done this yet, successfully, there are thousands upon thousands on the internet but to be honest they are just anonymous people who i've never spoken to.
anyway its still something i'm researching and haven't done it but i'm still apparently a crook, thief and slimy etc lol

[Black.Ghost]

direct quote from their site "If you don’t watch or record television programmes as they are being shown on TV, on any device, you don’t need a TV Licence. Here’s how you can let us know."

who's to say its fraud? you are allowed to use your TV to watch pre recorded programs and DVD's and catch up TV services such as 4OD, Iplayer etc etc. you must be seen to be using the device to watch live as broadcast TV. I'd be happy for a van to sit outside my house and TRY to block my signal seeing as that is unlawful aggravated harassment and its perfectly legal to watch all +1 channels as they are not live broadcast.

Define pre-recorded programs? If you record it when it was broadcast, you need a license. Its that simple.

nonesence. there is no audio or radio licence, it was abolished in 1971.
no-one can enter your property (including gardens and boundaries) once they have been informed that you have removed implied rights to access, police and bailiffs included. The only exceptions to this are court appointed bailiffs who are there to issue a court ordered warrant. police may also be the bearer of the warrant and have no other right to enter the premises unless they believe or have evidence that you are committing a serious offence on the premises.

This isn't something i've just made up, i've researched it with various legal sources including CAB and a friend who has a degree in law and works for a solicitors.

There is no Radio license, true, but the TV license also covers their Radio channels. Everything from Radio 1 to 5 live are covered by it.

Frankly, you are free to try whatever hairbrained scheme you want to avoid paying the TV license. There are a lot more serious crimes going on everyday in my opinion. But if you get caught, be prepared to accept the consequences. You are an Adult now so you are free to make your own choices about what laws you abide by.

Most of the points have already been made that indicate this is a load of cobbled together crap that someone with no life who sits in front a computer all day everyday has put together.

Whether or not you think the TV license should be abolished is a different matter, and you would probably have a fair bit of support with that.

As for the BBC criminal side of things, they do have a very chequered past - the Jimmy Saville crap is a prime example. However, if you think YOU not paying for the license will make a blind bit of difference, go ahead.

Have you ever ordered anything from Amazon? They avoid paying tax. Run Windows programs? Microsoft have dodgy tax dodges as well. Just face it - corruption in many forms is a simple fact of life. Unless you build your own house, live off the land and buy nothing at all, you will be supporting/facilitating it in some way or another.

Just accept that the TV license is a legal requirement at the moment. Its hardly the end of the world.

[Badboytunes]

Most of the points have already been made that indicate this is a load of cobbled together crap that someone with no life who sits in front a computer all day everyday has put together.

Thats a bit harsh......

[Black.Ghost]

It wasn't meant to be - just trying to emphasise the point. And I wasn't really referring to people who work with computers all day, more those 40-odd year olds who still live at home and whose whole life revolves around their computer etc.

If you took offence, I apologise. But I stand by the gist of my overall post.

[Badboytunes]

I couldnt give a flying....... well you know , not my thread ;). Just thought it was a harsh thing to sat to the op.


No offence taken

[duffman]

ok, thats your opinion, your entitled to it, although if you had actually read the thread you'd have been able to form a more intelligent and informed opinion but again thats your choice.

you seem to have skipped over every relevant fact, such as the fact i don't want to pay it is because i don't use any of the services it provides, that i've sought legal advice and had confirmation for everything i've posted from legal bodies, that pre recorded programs refers to iplayers, 4OD etc NOT tv you record yourself.

If you insist on trying to belittle people on a forum at least have the decency and common sence to read whats been said, if for no other reason than to stop you looking foolish and childish with the, what seems to be a trend on here at the moment, knee jerk reaction from a thread title without reading its actual content.

[sonikk4]

Last and final warning to anybody posting on this thread. I have removed comments from one poster that were not needed.

Please be civil in your answers if you feel the need to answer at all.

We are all entitled to our own views BUT please think twice about what you post and how you word it. THIS IS THE FINAL WARNING and the next person to ignore this will be issued with a warning point.

[sonikk4]

Closed.