20 replies to this topic

[radgator1]

I have previous threads reporting my car with "brand new" engine wouldn't start or run, and as it turns out there are no needles in the carbs so I need to order some ASAP and try again.  I will list the build and hope someone can recommend some that will at least get me (and the car) started.  I'll probably list too much but this is all the info on my build sheet and it all sounds so damn cool and cost me a bundle 

 

Carbs: Twin HS4 with pippercross foam filters (are those decent filters?  they don't seem real popular here.)

Head: Rally/Race Head 31mm x 36mm Competition Valves, Double Valve Springs, Fully Ported and Polished, Bronze guides, Matched to Inlet manifold, Standard Rockers

Engine: Block bored to 73.5mm, Powermax Pistons,Center main strap, Adjustable Duplex, HC oil pump

Camshaft: BP300, Cam Followers

Flywheel:  Lightened Pre-Verto, Orange Diaphragm, Turbo Clutch Plate, New Straps

Crank/Rods: Re-ground to Cooper S Size to make 1430cc, Cooper S Rods, Balanced

Gearbox: Centre Pick-up, Hardened Diff Pin,  S/C C/R Gearset, S/C Drop Gears, X-Pin Diff

Exhaust: Not really sure, definitely an LCB Manifold and I think Maniflow exhaust.  One thing I noticed is the diameter of the LCB is wider than the center pipe of the exhaust so I probably got the wrong exhaust, 1.75 vs 2 on the y pipe. Hopefully that isn't going to cause significant restriction because I'd hate to have to buy it again, the right one this time.

 

I want to order some needles from mini spares (even though I sent them a message asking for a suggestion and never heard back from them).

 

Help really appreciated.  Once I get her running I will try to find a tuner to do a proper rolling road setup but have to get it running first.

 

One more thing.  When my mechanic tried to start the car before we realized there were no needles he said the coil was bad and giving a really weak spark, but it looks brand new (goldish color with a strap around the middle that says Lucas I believe).  It seems unlikely that it is bad, but he stuck a coil he had in his garage in and said we are getting good spark from that so he suggested I order another coil along with the needles, but I'm worried that it will be a waste of money and the same problem since it seems hardly likely that a new coil which is a pretty simple device would be bad.

 

Kevin

Edited by radgator1, 08 May 2013 - 01:48 AM.

[Earwax]

it would be highly unlikely that the first selection of needles is going to be right. - especially if you want it a bit lean for start up.

 

to give an idea other cars with twin HS4s - in Australia the police spec cooper S (1275)  ran CP4 needles - alot of 1275 - 1330 twin run 6, 7, needles (or needles similar in profile)  at 1360 i am looking at cs2 or thereabouts.( but probably run 6s to start up)

 

now go to minty lamb or any other SU needle comparison chart and have a look at the profiles i just mentioned and any others you know or are recommended  and then see what other needles are around there.  At 1430 i think you may be pushing the limit of HS4s?  As for coil buy the other one , but if yours is up to the mark take it back. 

[jaydee]

Hard to tell because ambient conditions in australia are totally different requiring different fuelling

I'd ask AC Dodd for a baseline..

 

Anyway Cs2 is a very rich needle, i'd start from AAA or even AAU and go from there, a rich mixture during the running in process will cause bore wash and damage, better to start with a slightly lean mixture. Have it rolling roaded twice, before and after running in.

[Earwax]

Hi again Kevin -  here is an SU needle comparison using a couple of the needles recommended by me and jaydee

 

 

 

The ones i suggested are the 13 stage fixed needles  , to be honest i am not sure if the 15 stage needles are also fixed or the swinging variety - but they are pretty similar  - i think the CAUTION from both replies so far is don't go too rich for run in

 

I am not suggesting a needle as i said have a good look and compare for yourself. ( i only run mine based on my spec in my conditions with me monitoring the AFR ) cheers

[radgator1]

Hi again Kevin -  here is an SU needle comparison using a couple of the needles recommended by me and jaydee

 

 

 

The ones i suggested are the 13 stage fixed needles  , to be honest i am not sure if the 15 stage needles are also fixed or the swinging variety - but they are pretty similar  - i think the CAUTION from both replies so far is don't go too rich for run in

 

I am not suggesting a needle as i said have a good look and compare for yourself. ( i only run mine based on my spec in my conditions with me monitoring the AFR ) cheers

Thanks for the replies guys.  I've seen that program but honestly it's greek to me.  Can someone give a quick overview on how to read it?  Also difference between fixed vs swinging type.  Why does it appear the "6" starts at 6 along the abscissa?  I certainly take full responsibility but need to order today.  So 6 maybe?

[Earwax]

Hi Kevin

 

there are 4 lines all overlapping in the diagram. so 6 does indeed go all the way.   The bottom numbers represent the 'stations of the needle - from memory they are just reference points every eight of an inch as the needle tapers from top to bottom. The y axis numbers represent the diameter the needle - so in this chart 900 (which is .090 type needle) is the top of the needle and it tapers to richer end.  There are plenty of 'versions of what happens at the various stations or more to the point zones (eg stations 1- 4 idle) station 10-13 wide open throttle). Minty lamb charts inverse the chart but still show the taper.   Fixed needles look just like a needle, swinging needles have a base plate sort of attachment. all the HS4 s i have seen are fixed. I would think a pair of sixes wont get you in trouble for running in  BUT   try and get a local to confirm . Cheers

[radgator1]

Great, thanks again Earwax (that's kind of an odd name LOL).  I'm off to order a couple of 6's.  Wish me luck.

[iwatkins]

Hi Kevin,

Are we having fun yet?

Hold off on ordering.... The HS4 uses sprung or "swinging" needles. I.e. they sit in their flush mounting on the underside of the carb piston with a tiny spring behind them. Order four of these tiny springs, you'll loose one every now and then. Twice as many for twin carbs.

Running a pair of carbs on the engine spec. you have, order a pair of AAU to get you started. Nice curve to run in. But because of your no doubt stupid shipping costs, get a pair if AAA needles too. And a pair of red piston springs.

You want enough fuel to run, but not too much that may compromise the fresh engine through bore wash.

Keep going, you are very nearly there.

Cheers

Ian

[Earwax]

Hi ian and Kevin

 

hs 4 early type were fixed needle ( what early type means i don't know) - but my experience with Hs4s is all fixed needle and dklawson ( excellent poster on TMF) confirms this but adds the later ones and HIf were swinging needles.

 

Sorry Kevin if i led you astray , again the profile chart of 6 and aau is mighty similar - you just need to get the right type of needle to match your carb

[iwatkins]

Earwax,

I didn't know HS4 were fixed then became swinging. Only way to be sure is for Kevin to pull the carb piston on both carbs and check.

Cheers

Ian

[radgator1]

Well I ordered the 6's along with a couple crankcase breathers but don't think order has shipped yet.  Maybe I can add the AAU's to the order as well as the springs.  Are there any Mini Spares representatives on the forum?  Last message I sent to them I didn't get a reply.  I need to find the springs you mentioned.  Any chance for a link or is that forbidden by TOS?  What about the guides I have seen in diagrams for swinging needles?  Might I need those?

 

Thanks for the help guys and absolutely no worries about possibly steering me on a tangent or over-order.  If I knew what the hell I was doing I wouldn't be putting you in the position in the first place so if i waste an extra 15-20 quid so be it.  I'm just happy to get the help.

[radgator1]

By the way, this is the coil in my car and obviously brand new.  Any more ideas why it wouldn't be giving spark, like it is n't connected correctly by my Mechanic.  I still find it hard to believe it is bad.

 

Coil, sports Lucas, non-ballast.  

[Earwax]

Hi Kevin

 

if you use the minispares order number as reference, you should be able to stop and change the shipment(if you haven't already received the shipped email.

 

Before you order the correct one , check the carb piston   for which type of needle you have

 

the fixed needle  eg (6)

 

is held in place by a grub screw on the side

 

 

the swinging needle (eg AAU)

has a spring arrangement

 

both are for .90 needles

[radgator1]

Well I got the fixed needles and as Murphy would dictate they aren't the right ones.  In my experience, in  any 50/50 proposition there's 90% chance I'm going to get screwed  .  Looks like it's time to order swinging ones.  Interestingly, my mechanic said he fabricated something to put around the fixed needle hub so that it can fit in the piston and can be held in place with the set screw and the car actually starts and runs,  but I'm sure they can't be centered like that so might cause damage so I better get the swinging type.  Ian, can you elaborate on the red piston springs you mentioned?

[radgator1]

Well folks, I'm still stuck here with a car I can't start.  As mentioned above the fixed needles weren't the right ones so I need the swinging ones.  I've got 2 each of the AAA and AAUs in my cart, along with a bunch of other stuff at minispares, but the problem is they don't have the needle guides (out of stock) and they haven't replied to a message asking if they knew when they might be back in stock.  They have the needles and springs, but I'm assuming the guides are pretty critical.  Shipping is high to the States so I don't want to keep ordering stuff every couple weeks.  Is there someone else that might be able to supply the guides or are they something I can substitute or fabricate?