46 replies to this topic

[mini-luke]

Coil springs still snap - any MOT tester will tell you that

[Tamworthbay]

Another large factor in my moving to springs is that they dont perish, wear out and harden like cones. Also, there is next to no "settling" time with them, they settle almost straight away, so theres no need to constantly fiddle with the tracking.

Would you compromise and switch rubber tyres to something that doesn't wear out? I doubt it, in the same way I wouldn't compromise the ride and handling of my mini by fitting inferior parts. If cost is an issue than maybe they would save a few pounds over a couple of decades but I think its a drop in the ocean. The same goes for maintenance, a couple of minutes here or there makes no odds.

[Fast Ivan]

perhaps this fella can enlighten us to the merits, or otherwise, of springs............

 

http://www.theminifo...ing-conversion/

 

by the way I have springs on the front and cones on the back, temporary situation 

[firstforward]

 

Would you compromise and switch rubber tyres to something that doesn't wear out? I doubt it, in the same way I wouldn't compromise the ride and handling of my mini by fitting inferior parts. If cost is an issue than maybe they would save a few pounds over a couple of decades but I think its a drop in the ocean. The same goes for maintenance, a couple of minutes here or there makes no odds.

 

 

Please run that across me again, I really cannot understand what you are talking about with the tyres????? How does that work?

 

Rubber cones were fine for the 50's but as stated we have moved on since them, indeed they tried with the Moulton Bicycle that had rubber suspension but all bikes have ended up with coils, and as for longevity, can somebody correct me but were the coils first manufactured in japan back in the 80's?. Some coils are designed with progression built in, and I am not sure I have read that the guys that sell these claim anything more that a better ride, if you can show me anything else that makes erroneous claims I would be interested.

 

Take your mini out in sub zero temps and see how hard the rubber is, likewise in really hot climates the opposite.

 

Anyway for those that want to stay with cones...keep enjoying, you have your reasons and I respect that but don't knock something before you have tried it.

[Tamworthbay]

Would you compromise and switch rubber tyres to something that doesn't wear out? I doubt it, in the same way I wouldn't compromise the ride and handling of my mini by fitting inferior parts. If cost is an issue than maybe they would save a few pounds over a couple of decades but I think its a drop in the ocean. The same goes for maintenance, a couple of minutes here or there makes no odds.

 
Please run that across me again, I really cannot understand what you are talking about with the tyres????? How does that work?
 
Rubber cones were fine for the 50's but as stated we have moved on since them, indeed they tried with the Moulton Bicycle that had rubber suspension but all bikes have ended up with coils, and as for longevity, can somebody correct me but were the coils first manufactured in japan back in the 80's?. Some coils are designed with progression built in, and I am not sure I have read that the guys that sell these claim anything more that a better ride, if you can show me anything else that makes erroneous claims I would be interested.
 
Take your mini out in sub zero temps and see how hard the rubber is, likewise in really hot climates the opposite.
 
Anyway for those that want to stay with cones...keep enjoying, you have your reasons and I respect that but don't knock something before you have tried it.

But I have tried it, that is why I don't like it. Do you not think the properties of metal change with temperature as well? What is very interesting is that many of the pro coil posts say that they always have the bumpstop as a fail safe anyway. So what they are doing is replacing a large well designed rubber spring for a small rubber spring that wasn't designed for the job!

The comment about the tyres was a comparison relating to comments about component life. You wouldn't fit metal tyres because rubber ones wear out so why do the same with the suspension?

What also seems to be forgotten is that cars are not designed for what is best but what is best for production. They may come down to ease of fitment, cost of production or a number of other reasons. Just because they aren't fitted to modern cars doesn't mean they don't work. Take double wishbone suspension, generally accepted as far better than McPherson struts but more expensive to make. How many small cars use double wishbone suspension?

Personally I don't have any bias one way or another- I have run rubber, coils and Coilovers. What I have said before is that for the road, nothing rides like rubber IMHO.

I think the end point of the discussion is that obviously people want different things out of their cars. If I am honest, road holding and handling is all I am interested in, comfort is secondary. I think new rubber is as comfortable as springs but I do chuck it about a bit, my car does not get an easy time. Perhaps springs are more compliant for those wanting a softer ride and that could be why some people like them.

[firstforward]

Out of curiosity how many large sometimes expensive cars use double wishbone?

 

Edit: I have since researched this....F1 cars do fit double wishbone.

 

Anything changes its properties with temp change but metal is far less in this instance than rubber.

 

As I said before nearly all mini's are reliant on the bump stops, mini bump stops are used more than any other car on the road and they work very well despite what you say that they are not designed for the job.

 

I think you are quiet correct in saying it is a more compliant ride with coils and that is their main attraction to users,.

Edited by firstforward, 29 May 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[Tamworthbay]

I do not think cost comes into the equation with F1 racing cars, non fit double wishbone? Out of curiosity how many large sometimes expensive cars use double wishbone?
 
Anything changes its properties with temp change but metal is far less in this instance than rubber.
 
As I said before nearly all mini's are reliant on the bump stops, mini bump stops are used more than any other car on the road and they work very well despite what you say that they are not designed for the job.
 
I think you are quiet correct in saying it is a more compliant ride with coils and that is their main attraction to users,.

I know what you are saying bit F1 is not a good example. They are more restricted in what they can use than almost any formula. Given a choice they would use hydraulic active suspension and go nowhere near coils. Perhaps we should all switch to Hydrolastic?

[firstforward]

Perhaps

[Dan]

  Hydrolastic will be back one day in one form or another.  Rubber springs / Hydrolastic / Hydra-gas suspension is one of the reasons BMW bought Rover.  It's one of the few systems they kept the rights to when they split it all up and sold everything off.  I suspect they see a way to stop their cars destroying the rear tyres.

[mini-luke]

  Hydrolastic will be back one day in one form or another.  Rubber springs / Hydrolastic / Hydra-gas suspension is one of the reasons BMW bought Rover.  It's one of the few systems they kept the rights to when they split it all up and sold everything off.  I suspect they see a way to stop their cars destroying the rear tyres.

 

It would be one step further than the active dampers we see at present, you could have a computer controlled suspension that corners completely flat and still gives a great ride

[classicoop]

I think your all agreeing while disagreeing lol. So agree to disagree?

 

This is what I gathered from my "research".

 

Springs:

-More comfortable (even when compared to new cones)

-Breaks in half (yup it actually does, with pics) poster said it was Minispares springs, which looks like what most others sell (except Minitastic)

-Relatively new, so no long term testing

-Has tendency to dislodge when lowered

 

Cones:

-Rides harsher (even when new) than coils

-Handles better (debatable, coils would handle better where softer rates are preferred)

-Safer, because it doesn't break in half

-Hardens over time (some say decades some say after just a few years)

-Makes "thunk" noise when lowered (not sure about coils)

 

So if you prefer comfort, get coils. If you prefer handling get cones. If somewhere in the middle, get cones.

 

And for a road car, it doesn't matter if Double Wishbone (Honda, not sure which upscale manufacturer uses this), Multi-link (Audi/Bmw), Mcpherson (BMW since the beginning of time). Each has their pros/cons, but all work.

[Steviejb]

Sorry to hijack the thread but my mini was an mot fail due to the fact that I had coil springs fitted to the rear the mot tester said the were too lose? Ant thoughts anyone? Cheers.

[mini-luke]

Sorry to hijack the thread but my mini was an mot fail due to the fact that I had coil springs fitted to the rear the mot tester said the were too lose? Ant thoughts anyone? Cheers.

 

I expect they were loose when the car jacked up and the suspension on full droop, this is what causes the potential for them to dislodge going over a bump

[grumpy2]

Wow, opened a real can of worms here! I've been reading the comments with interest and concluded that people tend to have their own preferred system based largely on subjective conclusions ( with the possible exception of 'tamworthbay' who seems to have made some attempt at objectivity).

Anyway I've made a purchase based on the above comments and some subjective (daft) thinking of my own. I've had several minis with rubb suspension, two with hydro elastic but none with springs. The hydro cars were like being in a boat!, the rubber ones varied from quite smooth to rock hard(my current sportspack). So I've bought a set of springs, if I don't like them then it'll be back to standard rubber over the winter.

Thanks for all the comments and I didn't mean to start an arguement, sorry

G

[miniman24]

Out of interest, which make of springs did you go for?