Underneath the passenger side wing there's a black canister/pot with a couple of pipes going into it. What is it?
If people get rid of the rear bins, they also contain the bolt/mounting for the seatbelt so what is the best way/legal way to mount a harness/belt after this mod? Any extra parts needed? (Roll cage going in)
Also, if a section of the windscreen surround is rotten on both sides, but the scuttle is fine, is it best repairing the whole thing as one big panel, or keeping as much of the original metal as possible and patching it to keep the original shape and save on welding work?
cheers
Part identification, rear bin/belts question
Started by
northern_monkey
, May 03 2006 07:56 AM
7 replies to this topic
#2
miniboo
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Lord of Original Thinking
Posted 03 May 2006 - 08:17 AM
Black thing under the wing is the charcoal filter.
#3
northern_monkey
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Stage One Kit Fitted
Posted 03 May 2006 - 08:24 AM
what does the cahrcoal filter do? needed, replaceable?
i'm flip fronting my mini you see, so if it isnt needed, or something smaller/lighter is available it wont go back on.
i'm flip fronting my mini you see, so if it isnt needed, or something smaller/lighter is available it wont go back on.
#4
miniboo
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Posted 03 May 2006 - 09:44 AM
yeah it is needed. it were all the overflows and brethers etc run to.
#5
pikey7
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Posted 03 May 2006 - 09:52 AM
Is it necessary....? Hmmm, I hope not! I've deleted the lot on mine. It may have a bearing on the MOT emissions test (I'm not in a position to find out right now!)
The cannister filters the overflow and breather system to supposedly lower the overall emmissions. Whether it works or not......
For the seatbelts, I'm adding an extra plate into the inner sill (or will be when Jammy remembers to have a measure for me... hint hint
). how easy that is to do if your shell doesn't need the work...
The scuttle is a PITA to replace. It's also a PITA to patch. I suppose it depends on where and how far yours has gone. Certainly once they start to go, they go quickly, so whatever it is, you need to fix it, and don't assume a bit of surface prep will do the job. They usually rust from the inside-out!
The cannister filters the overflow and breather system to supposedly lower the overall emmissions. Whether it works or not......
For the seatbelts, I'm adding an extra plate into the inner sill (or will be when Jammy remembers to have a measure for me... hint hint
). how easy that is to do if your shell doesn't need the work...The scuttle is a PITA to replace. It's also a PITA to patch. I suppose it depends on where and how far yours has gone. Certainly once they start to go, they go quickly, so whatever it is, you need to fix it, and don't assume a bit of surface prep will do the job. They usually rust from the inside-out!
#6
Dan
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Posted 03 May 2006 - 04:51 PM
Is it necessary....? Hmmm, I hope not! I've deleted the lot on mine. It may have a bearing on the MOT emissions test (I'm not in a position to find out right now!)
It's not related to the breather system. It deals exclusively with fuel vapour. The fuel tank vent, float chamber vent where carbs are fitted and various parts of injection systems are hooked up to it so that any fuel vapour is collected rather than released to atmosphere and then drawn through the combustion cycle when the engine can burn them off without affecting anything (the tank purge valve is connected in such a way that it monitors engine load either through vacuum or electronics and compares this to engine temperature). While it is not covered by the MOT or any specific testing it is a legal requirement that cars of an age to be fitted with this system do not release fuel vapour into the atmosphere. Remember (and you should know this better than anyone Pikey7) that car companies don't fit anything technical to cars that they aren't legally required to or can make a profit from because everything costs money. Generally speaking if it's there then it needs to be there.
#7
pikey7
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Posted 03 May 2006 - 05:29 PM
Slap on wrist noted Dan! 
However, the vacuum pipes that go there can be gotten rid of, and a single line from dizzy to carb added (closed system then), and the fuel return via the cannister also bypassed (straight from carb to tank). again, a closed system.
I don't see how the fuel vapours can then escape to atmosphere at all in those cases (any fuel vapour is returned to the tank where it is "recycled" to the fuel system to be burned off).
I do take your point about fitting things that aren't necessary, and as far as I can see, by releasing unused vapours into the tank it will actually increase emissions slightly, thus creating the need for the cannister. If this was the only way that the factory deemed that they could ensure a pass on every car, then so be it (and thus creating the necessity), but each individual engine will have its own tolerances and parameters, and who's to say it won't pass an MOT emissions test now now without it? Mind you, until you get it tested, how will you know.....? Certainly Rover aren't gonna test each individual car and come up with a bespoke system for each (that'd be even more money!), but we certainly can.
However, the vacuum pipes that go there can be gotten rid of, and a single line from dizzy to carb added (closed system then), and the fuel return via the cannister also bypassed (straight from carb to tank). again, a closed system.
I don't see how the fuel vapours can then escape to atmosphere at all in those cases (any fuel vapour is returned to the tank where it is "recycled" to the fuel system to be burned off).
I do take your point about fitting things that aren't necessary, and as far as I can see, by releasing unused vapours into the tank it will actually increase emissions slightly, thus creating the need for the cannister. If this was the only way that the factory deemed that they could ensure a pass on every car, then so be it (and thus creating the necessity), but each individual engine will have its own tolerances and parameters, and who's to say it won't pass an MOT emissions test now now without it? Mind you, until you get it tested, how will you know.....? Certainly Rover aren't gonna test each individual car and come up with a bespoke system for each (that'd be even more money!), but we certainly can.
#8
Dan
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Posted 03 May 2006 - 08:29 PM
Hey, no slap on anything intended!
It's nothing to do with exhaust emissions and you can't make your fuel system into a sealed system, if you do the engine won't run. Fuel tanks need a vent so that air can return into the tank when fuel is drwn out by the engine otherwise fuel won't flow at all and the engine won't run. When the car is sat doing nothing, fuel vapour collects in the tank which escapes through the tank vent system. These are vehicle emissions rather than exhaust emissions which are covered by the type testing (which new cars go through because as you say individual testing would be ridiculous). I'm sure you know that cars going through type testing get locked in a sealed shed for two weeks with nothing happening to them and nothing running to test how many noxious chemicals are released from the cars systems, paint, upholstery and everything else into the atmosphere. To stop fuel vapour getting out of the system the vents in the system are all run through the charcoal canister which filters the vapour out while allowing air to come and go from the system depending on temperature and pressure. The charcoal eventually becomes saturated with fuel which is why it then needs to be drawn out and burned off. It's not going to have any bearing on the exhaust emissions at all whether the charcoal canister is fitted or not.
There should be no fuel return in a carb'd car unless it's a turbo. They simply don't need one. They have a vapour outlet/overflow running from the float bowl either into the air or the charcoal canister but it is only an overflow not a return.
It's nothing to do with exhaust emissions and you can't make your fuel system into a sealed system, if you do the engine won't run. Fuel tanks need a vent so that air can return into the tank when fuel is drwn out by the engine otherwise fuel won't flow at all and the engine won't run. When the car is sat doing nothing, fuel vapour collects in the tank which escapes through the tank vent system. These are vehicle emissions rather than exhaust emissions which are covered by the type testing (which new cars go through because as you say individual testing would be ridiculous). I'm sure you know that cars going through type testing get locked in a sealed shed for two weeks with nothing happening to them and nothing running to test how many noxious chemicals are released from the cars systems, paint, upholstery and everything else into the atmosphere. To stop fuel vapour getting out of the system the vents in the system are all run through the charcoal canister which filters the vapour out while allowing air to come and go from the system depending on temperature and pressure. The charcoal eventually becomes saturated with fuel which is why it then needs to be drawn out and burned off. It's not going to have any bearing on the exhaust emissions at all whether the charcoal canister is fitted or not.
There should be no fuel return in a carb'd car unless it's a turbo. They simply don't need one. They have a vapour outlet/overflow running from the float bowl either into the air or the charcoal canister but it is only an overflow not a return.
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