64 replies to this topic

[zero_wlv]

Hopefully no-one minds me resurrecting a 5 year old thread,  but I noticed in a copy of the 1983 Austin Rover brochure:

 

 

Metro, Maestro, Ital, Ambassador, SD1 all say:

         "BODY:

          All steel unitary construction.

          Comprehensive anti-corrosion treatment, including cathodic electrocoat primer,

          front wheel arch liners, PVC underbody seal and wax, plus wax injection of box sections.

          6 year Supershield corrosion warranty."

or something very similar.

 

 

For Mini,  all we get is:

          "BODY:

           2 door saloon, all steel unitary construction."

which seems very ominous to me!      This implies that there was no effort to rustproof the Mini at all,  at least not in 1983.    In contrast,  all the other Austin Rover cars had quite a bit of anti-corrosion treatment (whether or not it was successful).

 

Why is this?    Is it simply because it wasn't possible to budget for this given the Mini's low list price?     Or maybe because they knew customers' expectations on corrosion resistance would be fairly low since the Mini was such an old design.

 

Is it true that Minis came out of the factory with no rustproofing at all?

 

My 1988 example certainly seems to have no wax at all in the box sections,   although thankfully the previous owner did wisely Waxoyl the underside and wheel arches.

Did Minis come out of the factory with body-coloured sills, wheel arches and undersides?

Edited by zero_wlv, 26 August 2018 - 11:47 PM.

[MikeRotherham]

My own take on this is the way the body was constructed.

 

Its made up of a lot of separate parts. For example consider the side of a mini and the number of parts in it's makeup.

 

Each join is a potential rust trap especially given the lack of adequate rust protection at the factory.

 

For the same reason though it's eminently repairable by an amateur.

 

When we restore if we use all the modern materials we now have at our disposal like weld thru primers and seam sealers we can make it last a lot longer.

[surfblue]

 

I have to say i think the reason that the newer minis have more rust is simply the fact that with injection etc they start on the button and therefore get used more often, who has had a carbed mini run well in the cold without some re fettling, or even not start due to frozen carbs or something.??? Used more often equals more exposure to the elements equals more likely hood of rust.

I use my 998 carb mini all year round. Scraping ice off the inside of the windscreen. Never adjust anything, whereas my Fiesta had a hissy fit last year in the snow and refused to cold start due to a dodgy auto choke. The Mini has some rust, but nothing on an MPI. I spoke to someone at a classic show that had to reshell a '99 mini as this was the most economic repair. This was in '06!!!! A 7 year old car with terminal corrosion! It's not even 'old car', let alone classic age.

 

I was having a similar conversation last week with a car salesman. We were buying a 4 year old VW Up! (Dont forget the exclamation mark!) and commenting how it looked just like new, whereas 30 or 40 years ago, cars at that age could be very rusty, needing welded repairs and repainting by that age. Modern paint and rustproofing techniques are light years away from what our poor Mini's left Cowley or Longbridge with.

[greenwheels]

It's mostly down to cost. Modern cars are made with zinc coated steel, either electrocoated or hot dipped. Back in the day it was considered but in the economic climate of the time it would have added costs to the cars production which would have put it way out of reach to potential customers. Also there was not the production technologies and available investment to build the zinc coated steel production facilities. Only when it was felt people were well of enough to pay for it and it was marketable were the huge investment considered viable.

In the late 50's the Mini was breaking new ground in design and production methods. Interestingly as MikeRotheram points out the number of parts is high. The very first Mini shells had a one piece bodyside, common in modern cars, but it was dropped because there is a lot of waste steel, the door cutout for example, which raised the costs to high.

[surfblue]

Hopefully no-one minds me resurrecting a 5 year old thread,  but I noticed in a copy of the 1983 Austin Rover brochure:

 

 

Metro, Maestro, Ital, Ambassador, SD1 all say:

         "BODY:

          All steel unitary construction.

          Comprehensive anti-corrosion treatment, including cathodic electrocoat primer,

          front wheel arch liners, PVC underbody seal and wax, plus wax injection of box sections.

          6 year Supershield corrosion warranty."

or something very similar.

 

 

For Mini,  all we get is:

          "BODY:

           2 door saloon, all steel unitary construction."

which seems very ominous to me!      This implies that there was no effort to rustproof the Mini at all,  at least not in 1983.    In contrast,  all the other Austin Rover cars had quite a bit of anti-corrosion treatment (whether or not it was successful).

 

Why is this?    Is it simply because it wasn't possible to budget for this given the Mini's low list price?     Or maybe because they knew customers' expectations on corrosion resistance would be fairly low since the Mini was such an old design.

 

Is it true that Minis came out of the factory with no rustproofing at all?

 

My 1988 example certainly seems to have no wax at all in the box sections,   although thankfully the previous owner did wisely Waxoyl the underside and wheel arches.

Did Minis come out of the factory with body-coloured sills, wheel arches and undersides?

I dont know about all of the 83' range but my dad had an '83 Sd1 which by the time it was 4 years old in '87 was starting to rust on the sills and door step panels, all needing rubbed back, rust proofed and repainted. This was an Opaline metallic green car, same colour was used on Mini's of similar vintage, I recall they seemed to rust stunningly quickly too. Something to do with particular paint's properties?

[Ethel]

"Ziebart" treatment was offered at many dealerships. Earlier Minis had rotadip, the hole in the rear bulkhead (seat back) disappeared  early in the 70's, don't know if the process lasted as long.

 

I reckon the little wheels and low ground clearance has a lot to do with it if you look where they rot worst. Self inflicted grit blasting and poorer air flow when they're parked up. The damp course on your house is very likely higher to be clear of rain bouncing up.

 

Just be grateful for all the oil leaks 

[Steve220]

It's a great shame rover did nothing to improve the manufacturing process to give the mini longevity. You look at the other mg/rover models around 99/2000 And most have a good amount of rust proofing inside of the panels.

[CityEPete]

It's a great shame rover did nothing to improve the manufacturing process to give the mini longevity. You look at the other mg/rover models around 99/2000 And most have a good amount of rust proofing inside of the panels.

Not only that they actually got worse, the newer the mini the worse they rust!

I suppose if they were still going they'd jump on the eco bandwagon and say they are biodegradable!

[MIGLIACARS]

Because they crave attention and TLC! 

are they female

[DeadSquare]

"Ziebart" treatment was offered at many dealerships. Earlier Minis had rotadip, the hole in the rear bulkhead (seat back) disappeared  early in the 70's, don't know if the process lasted as long.

 

I reckon the little wheels and low ground clearance has a lot to do with it if you look where they rot worst. Self inflicted grit blasting and poorer air flow when they're parked up. The damp course on your house is very likely higher to be clear of rain bouncing up.

 

Just be grateful for all the oil leaks 

 

Rotadip could be short circuited on 'The Line', in case it became a bottle neck in production, and because of hold-ups at Longbridge, its use there was becoming intermittent for D reg cars.

 

About this time, "Red Robbo" was going for 'brownie points' with the TUC,  calling a strike a week, so very few E reg got dipped and in my opinion, the paint became mostly thinners.

[pusb]

Hopefully no-one minds me resurrecting a 5 year old thread, but I noticed in a copy of the 1983 Austin Rover brochure:


Metro, Maestro, Ital, Ambassador, SD1 all say:
"BODY:
All steel unitary construction.
Comprehensive anti-corrosion treatment, including cathodic electrocoat primer,
front wheel arch liners, PVC underbody seal and wax, plus wax injection of box sections.
6 year Supershield corrosion warranty."
or something very similar.


For Mini, all we get is:
"BODY:
2 door saloon, all steel unitary construction."
which seems very ominous to me! This implies that there was no effort to rustproof the Mini at all, at least not in 1983. In contrast, all the other Austin Rover cars had quite a bit of anti-corrosion treatment (whether or not it was successful).

Why is this? Is it simply because it wasn't possible to budget for this given the Mini's low list price? Or maybe because they knew customers' expectations on corrosion resistance would be fairly low since the Mini was such an old design.

Is it true that Minis came out of the factory with no rustproofing at all?

My 1988 example certainly seems to have no wax at all in the box sections, although thankfully the previous owner did wisely Waxoyl the underside and wheel arches.
Did Minis come out of the factory with body-coloured sills, wheel arches and undersides?

The thing is though, did Minis rust any worse than those cars?
I remember when I was little my mates Dad had a Metro that was probably about 10 years old at the time. The rust on that was horrific.

It’s not even just BL cars, my Dad had a Talbot Alpine when I was young from the early 80s. That was full of rust.

I think people make the mistake of comparing the corrosion on a Mini to a modern car. Whereas when you compare it to most cars of the 60s and 70s, then it’s not much different.

[Bat]

Hi,

Maybe it's something to do with the shells were bulit one side of the road and painted the other. If there was a strike or production problem the bare metal shells would sit outside in the rain...

Cheers 

[mab01uk]

The ROTODIP Process
THE first of the twin Rotodip plants at Longbridge was fully installed in July 1950, and the second plant by January 1951. They were in full production by May 1952.
http://www.austinmem...d-34/index.html

Watch from 4.00 minutes for Rotodip:-

Edited by mab01uk, 27 August 2018 - 06:51 PM.

[mab01uk]

The last of the MPi Minis were left in mostly grey primer on the underside and wheel arches with only some light overspray of top colour coat in places underneath. The selling price of the Mini had been raised by this point along with a move upmarket with lots of customer options, as the almost hand built Mini was now too expensive to build and sell as a cheap economy car profitably and could no longer compete with modern cheap imported small cars built in overseas 'low wage economy' factories using robot welders.

After cancelling Rover's plans to end Mini production by 1997, (due to costly new EU emission and safety laws), BMW spent several million upgrading the Classic Mini to MPi spec to keep it legal and to continue selling the Mini until 2000 and the planned introduction of the New R50 MINI. Sadly it seems there was not enough left in the investment package to upgrade the rust proofing to modern standards and with only 3 or 4 years left of low volume production it was probably too late.......

Edited by mab01uk, 27 August 2018 - 07:14 PM.

[wile e coyote]

I have a theory not mentioned yet - no definite knowledge but have seen a hell of a lot of mini's over the years - I'd speculate that up to about 82-83 some decent, well better at least, steel was used - after that time the material quality seems to have gone downhill rapidly .. appears earlier generation panels were marginally thicker too......

 

Added to all the other reasons given it's perhaps not surprising my ex's spi equinox was beyond saving in 2008.... had never before or since seen rust like it at that point it needed complete scuttle inner & outer sills, all four floor panels , boot floor, battery box. valance , one rear quarter, A panel, bonnet  and  and roof  repairs, 2 new door skins (after frame repair), and that was before considering the front panel cosmetics......ironically the rear subframe was absolutely fine!!!

 

Needless to say it wasn't repaired ....every silver lining though - it was a wonderful parts donor for my '80 which has had the grand total of only 2 front floor pans replaced to date