26 replies to this topic

[Tamworthbay]

MSA state that any fuel lines running through the car must be unbroken I.e. No joins. They are far safer inside than outside, in the event of a crash they are more likely to get damaged outside and have access to a source of ignition, exhaust, engine etc. that is why they are run internally in rally cars. Whilst track and road are very different, the sort of accident you are likely to have in a rally mini is more similar to that of a road car. I wouldn't bother changing to internal lines, but I don't see any issue with them being there.

[HUBBA.HUBBA]

To be honest, I can't see 8mm copper pipe leaking/snapping in the single motion of a crash!

[Carlos W]

MSA state that any fuel lines running through the car must be unbroken I.e. No joins. They are far safer inside than outside, in the event of a crash they are more likely to get damaged outside and have access to a source of ignition, exhaust, engine etc. that is why they are run internally in rally cars. Whilst track and road are very different, the sort of accident you are likely to have in a rally mini is more similar to that of a road car. I wouldn't bother changing to internal lines, but I don't see any issue with them being there.

 

Hot exhaust or engine wont light petrol, you need a spark or flame!

 

I was on a course last week where we poured petrol into a metal baking tray and flicked a lit cigarette into it! It didn't ignite!

[Tamworthbay]

MSA state that any fuel lines running through the car must be unbroken I.e. No joins. They are far safer inside than outside, in the event of a crash they are more likely to get damaged outside and have access to a source of ignition, exhaust, engine etc. that is why they are run internally in rally cars. Whilst track and road are very different, the sort of accident you are likely to have in a rally mini is more similar to that of a road car. I wouldn't bother changing to internal lines, but I don't see any issue with them being there.

 
Hot exhaust or engine wont light petrol, you need a spark or flame!
 
I was on a course last week where we poured petrol into a metal baking tray and flicked a lit cigarette into it! It didn't ignite!

Next time you come up I will show you a few tricks , usually what happens is the exhaust ignites grass etc underneath the car and that acts as the ignition source. Try the tray trick with petrol at 30+ degrees! turns you into a dog (well you go woof).

[AVV IT]

MSA state that any fuel lines running through the car must be unbroken I.e. No joins. They are far safer inside than outside, in the event of a crash they are more likely to get damaged outside and have access to a source of ignition, exhaust, engine etc. that is why they are run internally in rally cars. Whilst track and road are very different, the sort of accident you are likely to have in a rally mini is more similar to that of a road car. I wouldn't bother changing to internal lines, but I don't see any issue with them being there.

 

But If they get damaged on the outside, any fire is therefore on the outside as well (at least initially), giving you valuable moments to get out, before receiving serious or or fatal burns. And whilst the rally environment is more akin to the road than the track, it's still very different. Aside from those collisions that involve trees, the most serious road collisions tend to involve the combined forces of two vehicles that collide head on, something that really shouldn't happen in a rally stage.

 

To be honest, I can't see 8mm copper pipe leaking/snapping in the single motion of a crash!

 

I've worked at the scenes of road traffic collisions for many years and witnessed how the forces involved in certain road collisions can be massive. I've seen collisions where chassis's fracture, shells are torn it two and where entire engines are ripped clean out of the car and thrown into adjacent fields, certainly more than enough to fracture 8mm copper pipe.

[HUBBA.HUBBA]

3 things needed for fire - fuel, oxygen and an ignitor (heat - 280 ish degrees C for petrol)

[HUBBA.HUBBA]

 

MSA state that any fuel lines running through the car must be unbroken I.e. No joins. They are far safer inside than outside, in the event of a crash they are more likely to get damaged outside and have access to a source of ignition, exhaust, engine etc. that is why they are run internally in rally cars. Whilst track and road are very different, the sort of accident you are likely to have in a rally mini is more similar to that of a road car. I wouldn't bother changing to internal lines, but I don't see any issue with them being there.

 

But If they get damaged on the outside, any fire is therefore on the outside as well (at least initially), giving you valuable moments to get out, before receiving serious or or fatal burns. And whilst the rally environment is more akin to the road than the track, it's still very different. Aside from those collisions that involve trees, the most serious road collisions tend to involve the combined forces of two vehicles that collide head on, something that really shouldn't happen in a rally stage.

 

To be honest, I can't see 8mm copper pipe leaking/snapping in the single motion of a crash!

 

I've worked at the scenes of road traffic collisions for many years and witnessed how the forces involved in certain road collisions can be massive. I've seen collisions where chassis's fracture, shells are torn it two and where entire engines are ripped clean out of the car and thrown into adjacent fields, certainly more than enough to fracture 8mm copper pipe.

 

Yeah, but that sort of crash in a mini and you'd be dead anyway!

An annealed cooper such as 8mm mirco bore will be more absorbent of a shock that say the steel or aluminium of the car body, as it is such a good conductor. It is very pliable and has a high plasticity.

[minispark]

sorry guys but it is going to be a track car!

i understand that there are different things involved on and off track but i feel that a line,  especially fuel running through the car is a lot better than it running on the outside. Inside you can see the condition of it. Plus with a track mini on the road and how low they are youve only gotta go over a speed bump these days and that can do enough damage to rupture a fuel pipe!

My minds set anyway its going inside but what do i use copper or braided? im thinking copper as itll be cheaper and stronger than a glorified plastic tube??? thanks for all ur views tho!

[Tamworthbay]

I never use braided anymore as it can degrade but is hidden by the braiding. There are some dodgy batches of braided around as well. Some braided is ok but its uber expensive, I think I got my last lot from servo interconnect ltd, but I think they have dropped that product range now. We will be using copper on our hillclimb car at work.

[HUBBA.HUBBA]

sorry guys but it is going to be a track car!

i understand that there are different things involved on and off track but i feel that a line,  especially fuel running through the car is a lot better than it running on the outside. Inside you can see the condition of it. Plus with a track mini on the road and how low they are youve only gotta go over a speed bump these days and that can do enough damage to rupture a fuel pipe!

My minds set anyway its going inside but what do i use copper or braided? im thinking copper as itll be cheaper and stronger than a glorified plastic tube??? thanks for all ur views tho!

go for the copper . IMO. If a job's worth doing.........

[sonikk4]

If you do go braided then get Aerospace quality. I don't have access to the pipe anymore but i used to make these in the RAF and pressure tested them as well. Done correctly and routed properly these will not fail. Can't afford for them to go bang on an aircraft.

 

Its like anything, you pay for quality, pay peanuts and get monkey built items or substandard parts.

[camp freddy]

I don't intend to be in the car for long if the fuel line splits, if it does the car and myself would be that badly damaged

I wouldn't survive any way..... Pipes are more likely to be ripped off from underneath anyway as said fuel doesn't ignite

as easily as people think , but the fumes can..... I've done the fag end trick to show a friend it won't go up...

 

At the end of the day the choice is yours....... I may have some spare copper pipe on a roll...