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Ball Joint Failure When Driving Resulting In A Crash


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#16 welshdan

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 12:55 PM

It's not the first, perhaps we can have some close up photos or even arrange to have it analysed? Is its origins known?

 

As for the best course of action, chances are there's very little you can do. Steering towards the damaged side and coasting to halt would be the best way to keep it from ploughing into the ground, but that's unlikely to be practical unless you're luck enough to be in the middle of a deserted car park. You're also unlikely to be aware there's a problem until you're digging a groove in tarmac, you could try braking but there's a fair chance the hydraulics have already been ripped off.

 

 

Welshdan,

 

Can you say with any certainty that was the cause or just an effect of the remnants hitting the road at speed?

 

that was the only thing that was broken. the end of the balljoint was still though the bottom arm, nuts etc intact. the balljoint thread snapped in half, there were about 3 threads left on the one side, and one the whole diameter. he was only 5 mins from home, I took some tools down, we split the balljoint out of the bottom arm, put it back together and drove home !!slowly!!!

 

as said its not surprising that sometimes things like this might go with the state of the roads around here.

 

they are seriously rough



#17 Burgerdale

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 01:18 PM

Thanks everyone, will post pics of the broken bits when im able. Currently laid up with a stomach bug (sods law) when wanting to get it fixed.
The brake pipes were intact, still got a hard pedal.
The ball joint was completely shattered and the tie bar had a clean break where the thread met the rose joint end. The rose joint on the lower arm was bent too.
It was all over in a flash, lifted and touched the brakes to scrub a little speed ahead of the bend (max 40 if that), no brakes, braked harder, nothing. Tried to steer, nothing, turned the wheel a lot more, nothing and then bang. Ended up on its side after bouncing off the hedge.
It didn't feel like understeer, we've all experienced that in a mini, it was as if it was on a sheet of ice. Just thinking, sh*t, nothing gonna crash, hope its not a bad un.

#18 welshdan

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:13 PM

hope the car isn't too badly damaged.

 

who manufactured the ball joints (all aftermarket ones are crape in my opinion/experience)

as said the roads don't help matters. were they properly adjusted?



#19 Mini Manannán

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:22 PM

fROM THE mINISPARES WEBSITE: 

 

Genuine swivel pin repair kit. Beware as latest X-PARTS supplies now have no grease path up the shoulder and wear in the small ball seats is alarming, which suggests material problems somewhere. Our latest experience shows upper joints wearing out quickly (4-5000 miles). Our stock are ok, as we now only sell original UNIPART.

 

Wasn't an X-PARTS ball joint was it?



#20 Ethel

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:30 PM

It would be more likely for a failed tie bar to kill a ball joint than the other way round.



#21 Burgerdale

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:47 PM

They're actually modified metro hubs so they're metro ball joints.
Not sure of the brand, but the way the tie bar is completely sheared gives me a feeling it could be that.

The car isnt too bad thankfully, it had a fibre glass front on it, which remarkably is still in one piece, bar a few cracks.
Its the near side rear corner of the roof that took the impact. Its bent in all down the drip seam, from about halfway along the door back. The roll cage stopped it from moving more. The roof and possibly the upper qtr is pushed in around an inch at the top. The rear nearside qtr window popped as well.

#22 Burgerdale

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:50 PM

Forgot to add, the other tie bar end was bent off and came off. Popped a tyre but the wheels look ok. Shame as they're 4 brand new tyres and wheels I had imported from germany. Only had the tyres on 2 days. Gutted.
Im surprised how unscathed it was really, the subframe and engine are fine. It actually starts first time.

#23 Ethel

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:52 PM

You probably know, but worth a mention in case: only the very early Metro ball joints fit the mini suspension arms.



#24 Burgerdale

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:53 PM

Ive got an aftermarket replacement ball joint to get it moving again. Just so I can get it to the garage to get the roof sorted.
Im thinking that I may be as well cutting the roof skin and replacing with carbon fibre one. Seeing as its the roll cage that did the job anyway.
In a way im glad it happened it the one with the full roll cage not one without.

#25 Burgerdale

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:55 PM

Thanks Ethel, I had the local garage order both types to check what fitted. Luckily the mechanic was knowledgeable and knww there were different ones.

#26 ado15

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 04:13 PM

.......The ball joint was completely shattered and the tie bar had a clean break where the thread met the rose joint end. The rose joint on the lower arm was bent too........

 

Sounds likely that the tie rod failed first. Then I can see the ball joint failing because it necked out.

 

The most common cause of ball joint failure otherwise is when people remove shims on old ones to 'adjust' out the play. Big mistake!



#27 Ethel

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 04:37 PM

That can be a bad idea, the ball will wear where it touches, and that is mostly over a narrow arc where you are steering straight ahead. Adjusting the slack out there will make it tight enough to bind nearer full lock, which can twist & fatigue the pin.



#28 minisprint

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 09:25 PM

Metro balljoints are sealed and not adjustable

#29 carbon

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 09:54 PM

Thanks everyone, will post pics of the broken bits when im able. Currently laid up with a stomach bug (sods law) when wanting to get it fixed.
The brake pipes were intact, still got a hard pedal.
The ball joint was completely shattered and the tie bar had a clean break where the thread met the rose joint end. The rose joint on the lower arm was bent too.
It was all over in a flash, lifted and touched the brakes to scrub a little speed ahead of the bend (max 40 if that), no brakes, braked harder, nothing. Tried to steer, nothing, turned the wheel a lot more, nothing and then bang. Ended up on its side after bouncing off the hedge.
It didn't feel like understeer, we've all experienced that in a mini, it was as if it was on a sheet of ice. Just thinking, sh*t, nothing gonna crash, hope its not a bad un.

Good to hear you are OK.

 

So was the first point of failure where the tie bar was threaded into a rose joint end?



#30 Burgerdale

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 10:27 AM

Thanks carbon,
The concensus at the time was that it was the ball joint that gave first but given the shear of the tie bar when its threaded in then it could likely be that.
Both came out of it without a scrach, literally.




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