9 replies to this topic

[thetrev.com]

Hi,

 

any one else running a cat 3 or 4 historic rally car looking at building one and would like to see some others and get some advise.

 

thanks

 

Trev

[rally1380]

I run a cat 2 clubman......same tweeks really.

[thetrev.com]

Hi,

 

just been reading your project thread, lovely car,  from what I can see in the regs I would need a Cage, seats,sump guard  and belts and better suspension, its the engine I am struggling with, seeing what you have I can take and a series (or a+for next year)bore it to 1293 and pop a weber or SU on it and that will be accepted? or do I have to stick with a 1000cc if thats whats the car came with?

 

 

I hope you done mind can I ask on the suspension are you sill running the GAZ ones and do you know which one's and are you running uprated cones like the red spots?

 

Thanks

Trev

[rally1380]

Hi,

 

just been reading your project thread, lovely car,  from what I can see in the regs I would need a Cage, seats,sump guard  and belts and better suspension, its the engine I am struggling with, seeing what you have I can take and a series (or a+for next year)bore it to 1293 and pop a weber or SU on it and that will be accepted? or do I have to stick with a 1000cc if thats whats the car came with?

 

 

I hope you done mind can I ask on the suspension are you sill running the GAZ ones and do you know which one's and are you running uprated cones like the red spots?

 

Thanks

Trev

 

Hi Trev.

 

I assume you are talking about historic events like the HRCR clubman series rather than full on stage events??

 

If it is the clubman events (like Tour of Cheshire), then you do not 'need' a roll cage to comply with the regs. In fact you don't need any of the safety equipment you mentioned....unless the regs are changing?  By all means fit these 'safety' devices as if you do have an accident they will help, but you do see totally standard cars competing.

 

You don't even need a sump guard but i'd definately advise fitting one if you are going to be driving anything like i do.....'spirited' is the best word to describe it!!!!  Some of the tests are held on rough ground with large holes and stones etc so to save a sump getting smashed fit a guard.....and not a 'show' one either.

 

Engine - some people will say you need to spend ££££ and get an full blown 1380 etc etc etc....BLA BLA BLA.  Utter rubbish.  A reliable and rev happy 998 will do the business for now if funds are tight.  Most of the time on these events you'll be doing regularity sections at low average speeds so engine power is not important.....a standard 998 will do 18mph just as well as a 1380.  On tests you may loose ground a little compared to a large bore car but if you are neat at negotiating the tests then you will gain back that lost ground.

 

You do not have to retain the original engine as far as i'm aware....my car was a 998 originally. Most scutineers won't know the difference between the blocks anyway.

 

Suspension - fronts are redspot cones from minispares,  fixed neg camber lower arms, GAZ standard height adjustable shocks, uprated Tie bars, and proper HI-LO's.  Rear - standard dunlop cones, fixed neg camber brackets, GAZ standard height shocks + proper HI-Lo's again. 

 

Personally i reckon the lowered vesion of the GAZ shock's would be better....i've had mine bottom out a few times!!!

 

On a mini the brake and fuel lines are a little exposed too....so either run them inside (but please do it properly!!!!!!) or make up some capping to go over the standard pipes so stray stones or bumps don't rupture the pipe.

 

Trip meter is next.....plenty on the web about those.....personally I like the new 'basic roamer company' one....nice bloke too.  but these aren't entirely needed at first...go the right route at roughly the right speed and you'll do well.

 

Reliablility and strength are the key to rallying.  No point competing in a car that expires on the first test or breaks at the first sight of rough ground.

 

Another one the scrutes may look for is the rear bulkhead (the seat back). Around that needs sealing with a sealant (fireproof ideally). Reason for this is because the fuel tank is in the boot in a mini so has to be seperated from the 'passenger compartment' by a fireproof bulkhead.

 

Hope this helps and doesn't confuse???

 

Dave

[thetrev.com]

Thanks Dave, that helps a lot, I have been doing 12 Car Road rally and endurance events before, looking to do some in a Mini as had several and despite getting other cars still keep coming back to them. I think first thing is to get shell and built up then look at running gear and engine. 

 

looking around on here and some other sites some of the cars competing on the historic/road rally events have the correct number plates but the shells look newer by some of the panels, hows this looked at by some scrutineers? 

 

I would not want to do some of these evens with a cage or sump guard.

 

interested what you said about needing the lowered would have thought with some of the rough lanes the higher would have been better

 

Trev

[rally1380]

Thanks Dave, that helps a lot, I have been doing 12 Car Road rally and endurance events before, looking to do some in a Mini as had several and despite getting other cars still keep coming back to them. I think first thing is to get shell and built up then look at running gear and engine. 

 

looking around on here and some other sites some of the cars competing on the historic/road rally events have the correct number plates but the shells look newer by some of the panels, hows this looked at by some scrutineers? 

 

I would not want to do some of these evens with a cage or sump guard.

 

interested what you said about needing the lowered would have thought with some of the rough lanes the higher would have been better

 

Trev

 

If you look at HRCRT.co.uk at the mini specific information it does say that Cat 2 cars can run with single bolt front subframes....only way to do that is a reshell. So in other words you can run a newer shell but with older I.D.. Technically illegal I think, but it does happen and the scrutes don't pick it up.  Again, the scrutineer has to be a mini expert to pick up on these small differences, most are not experts and some have let very iffy mods through on a certain event.....like power steering on a mini!!!!!!!! 

 

As for the lowered shocks.  I run the car on 12's and quite high on the suspension, but on one night road rally in wales i went down a white, had a big impact on the rear and managed to peal the shock absorber top mount off the wheel arch.....see pic's (if i remembered to post them!). Didn't realise til the day after though...ha ha.  Shorter shocks wouldn't have bottomed out casusing the damage.  I now run the car slightly higher (not much) and harder and haven't had a similar issue since, but once the shocks are goosed they are going shorter. 

 

Best bit of advice would be to get the strongest rot free shell possible and go from there with strengthening etc then get a really reliable engine (not balls out power) and away you go.....be fantastic for 12 cars, HRCR clubman events and night road rallies as long as they are not mega rough.  Great thing about minis is they can be used for all sorts of events....as you know of course.

Edited by rally1380, 24 December 2013 - 10:37 AM.

[minisi35]

I would recommend a cage and sump guard!!

[keefr22]

I would recommend a cage and sump guard!!

And if you do fit a cage, do it properly with the right nuts & bolts & welded in plates as per the Blue Book regs..

 

Otherwise I reckon it will be more or less useless, especially if fitted like the fool that was supposed to have 'rally prepared' our car did. No strengthening plates, centre bar fitted into the companion bins with only two (finger tight!!) bolts in each foot (because he couldn't get a drill in to do the other holes & obviously didn't have a long enough extension to tighten them properly!) & some useless sort of allen key type setscrews holding the cage itself together!! Luckily we'd spotted most of his bodges when we looked at the car & knew most of what we'd need to do properly, but some of the cr*p he's done is still surprising us!! 

[thetrev.com]

Thanks for all the replys, been out looking at a few and seen some right lemons inc a 1961 in an mpi body ? advertised as no rust but turned out to be full of fiberglass off to the hrcr day next Saturday to get a better idea of whats allowed and the changes to the A+ blocks and cat 4's

[keefr22]

Thanks for all the replys, been out looking at a few and seen some right lemons inc a 1961 in an mpi body ? advertised as no rust but turned out to be full of fiberglass off to the hrcr day next Saturday to get a better idea of whats allowed and the changes to the A+ blocks and cat 4's

Can you post on the thread what you find out, if you get time?

 

Ta

Keith