35 replies to this topic

[Cooperman]

I once shared a car with 3 young lady rally drivers/co-drivers on a fairly long journey. The content of their conversations was 'interesting' to say the least!

Still, two of the three were, how shall I say it, 'current good friend/former good friend' whilst the third was later to become a 'good friend'.

I wasn't harassed at all - at least not on that occasion.

[Tanya]

I agree, except that I notice you only mention women being sexually harassed and this seems very common. The idea that it can happen to men is strangely forgotten, similar to those men who suffer domestic violence. It is not acceptable however it occurs and no matter who it occurs to. BUT we have to get away from the PC rubbish where people tread on eggshells. Men have a way of talking and acting, women do. Just because they aren't the same doesn't make one right and the other wrong. I love a bit of banter but save it for my social life and those few trusted colleagues.

 

 

Yes, I agree that men can be victims too.  If I remember correctly from my last domestic abuse training, the stats at that time showed the ratio was one man was a victim of domestic abuse for every seven women.  I don't know what the stats are for sexual harassment.  However, I would imagine with both that it is arguably harder for men to speak out and get help than it is for women.  

 

I couldn't agree more when you say ' I love a bit of banter but save it for my social life and those few trusted colleagues.'  Banter can be great, but you have to be sure that the other person/people are ok with it.  The best way to know is to know them well, so you both know what their comfortable and not comfortable with, and also when enough is enough.  

[Tamworthbay]

I agree, except that I notice you only mention women being sexually harassed and this seems very common. The idea that it can happen to men is strangely forgotten, similar to those men who suffer domestic violence. It is not acceptable however it occurs and no matter who it occurs to. BUT we have to get away from the PC rubbish where people tread on eggshells. Men have a way of talking and acting, women do. Just because they aren't the same doesn't make one right and the other wrong. I love a bit of banter but save it for my social life and those few trusted colleagues.

 
Yes, I agree that men can be victims too.  If I remember correctly from my last domestic abuse training, the stats at that time showed the ratio was one man was a victim of domestic abuse for every seven women.  I don't know what the stats are for sexual harassment.  However, I would imagine with both that it is arguably harder for men to speak out and get help than it is for women.  
 
I couldn't agree more when you say ' I love a bit of banter but save it for my social life and those few trusted colleagues.'  Banter can be great, but you have to be sure that the other person/people are ok with it.  The best way to know is to know them well, so you both know what their comfortable and not comfortable with, and also when enough is enough.

Yes that's the problem with training. I think the reality is much closer to 50:50. The difference being than men are more likely to cause serious harm because of their size physically (on average) and the fact that there is still a social stigma against men reporting it. My best friend at school's Mum was murdered by his father (he got away with it, she died of a heart attack and they couldn't prove it was due to the beating) and my cousin was knifed by his partner, he didn't go to the police - he lives in an ex mining community in Wales and would be laughed at for 'not even being able to deal with a little woman' (and she was very little). The true extent is very hard to judge but I doubt reported cases account for more than a couple of percent of the total.

I do think its sad that blokes having a bit of a laugh has been curtailed by a lot of PC rubbish, BUT that is very different to sexual harassment. As you rightly say its a matter of knowing the person and everyone being ok with the joke. I used to work with a guy who was positively creepy with some of the staff. They ended up getting rid of him on a technicality as no one wanted to point the finger. I think a lot, if not all, of the female staff breathed a sigh of relief when that happened. I challenged him on one occasion and his response was ' they like it'. He had a good slap of one of the staff but that seemed to make him worse sadly. People like that are dangerous. At the end of the day no one should dread going to work because of the potential of being harassed, or the potential of having false allegations for just having fun.

[Black.Ghost]

While I agree that the world is becoming too PC, there are some instances where actually it needs to be. This is not the 1950s or 60s anymore, and employers do have a duty to protect their staff from any kind of harassment, sexual or otherwise. I am not saying the older ways of dealing with things was wrong - I have no doubt it was highly effective. But the reality is, in the main its not effective anymore. 

 

I am not against banter in the work place at all. If I went to work in a company and everyone was all serious and boring, in all honesty I'd probably quit. However, it does have to be measured in that you can't just jump straight in at the deep end with banter with someone you barely know. Some may like it, and appreciate it as it can often make you feel like part of the team immediately - it certainly would me. However, the reality is that everyone is different and if you start with the banter straight away, they may already go home feeling they will hate the job. 

 

I also agree that far too many people are keen to sue for very little these days in search of a quick buck. However, that does not mean that the whole system of taking a company or individual to court should be abandoned because some people have a soft disposition or are just looking for money. The system needs to be there to protect everyone, male or female, gay or straight or whatever ethnic background. Without knowing what was said by who, and what actions were taken to prevent it getting worse etc, its impossible to say what will happen.

 

The only thing I know is when i get a job (hopefully soon) I will have to be quite careful for I am sure that the nature and consistency of banter in the Army is unwatched in most civilian companies.

[loobies-dad]

 

 

I agree, except that I notice you only mention women being sexually harassed and this seems very common. The idea that it can happen to men is strangely forgotten, similar to those men who suffer domestic violence. It is not acceptable however it occurs and no matter who it occurs to. BUT we have to get away from the PC rubbish where people tread on eggshells. Men have a way of talking and acting, women do. Just because they aren't the same doesn't make one right and the other wrong. I love a bit of banter but save it for my social life and those few trusted colleagues.

 
Yes, I agree that men can be victims too.  If I remember correctly from my last domestic abuse training, the stats at that time showed the ratio was one man was a victim of domestic abuse for every seven women.  I don't know what the stats are for sexual harassment.  However, I would imagine with both that it is arguably harder for men to speak out and get help than it is for women.  
 
I couldn't agree more when you say ' I love a bit of banter but save it for my social life and those few trusted colleagues.'  Banter can be great, but you have to be sure that the other person/people are ok with it.  The best way to know is to know them well, so you both know what their comfortable and not comfortable with, and also when enough is enough.

Yes that's the problem with training. I think the reality is much closer to 50:50. The difference being than men are more likely to cause serious harm because of their size physically (on average) and the fact that there is still a social stigma against men reporting it. My best friend at school's Mum was murdered by his father (he got away with it, she died of a heart attack and they couldn't prove it was due to the beating) and my cousin was knifed by his partner, he didn't go to the police - he lives in an ex mining community in Wales and would be laughed at for 'not even being able to deal with a little woman' (and she was very little). The true extent is very hard to judge but I doubt reported cases account for more than a couple of percent of the total.

I do think its sad that blokes having a bit of a laugh has been curtailed by a lot of PC rubbish, BUT that is very different to sexual harassment. As you rightly say its a matter of knowing the person and everyone being ok with the joke. I used to work with a guy who was positively creepy with some of the staff. They ended up getting rid of him on a technicality as no one wanted to point the finger. I think a lot, if not all, of the female staff breathed a sigh of relief when that happened. I challenged him on one occasion and his response was ' they like it'. He had a good slap of one of the staff but that seemed to make him worse sadly. People like that are dangerous. At the end of the day no one should dread going to work because of the potential of being harassed, or the potential of having false allegations for just having fun.

 

It does happen to men...i know from bitter experience!!!  

 

In my time I have worked in many different scenarios where it has been heavily populated by women and have been on the receiving end of abuse from women.  I once had a hot cup of coffee thrown over me for sayng that a girl with long hair should tie it back for safety reasons whilst using a pillar drill (she later had a lovely bald spot a couple of weeks later for this very reason) no action was taken against the women in question, and I was told by the female supervisor (her mother n law) that I should mind my own business! 

 

I was also groped by a female member of staff whilst standing at a franking machine who stated "Cor you've got a nice tight a***  ".  The same female shop steward who brought sexual harresment charges against another male staff member.

 

I now work in a very PC environment and it is definately a one way street... I hear so many lewd and sexists jokes and comments from different female members of staff and everybody laughs, but us blokes literally have to whisper any jokes in case we offend anyone.

[(philip)]

Worth noting that some of the above, if someone wanted push it, like it or not is in fact contrary to the equalities Act. Calling someone a "black......" anything could very likely get you fired whatever the circumstances are.

Also, the equalities act empowers a 3rd party to not only be able to make a complaint bout something they hear that they think is offensive but may not directly affect them, it says they have a responsibility to. So while something you say may not be meant in any offensive way, and may not be received in any offensive way by the person directly involved, if it is overheard by a colleague or visitor etc they could raise a complaint about it and you could find yourself in a disciplinary.

Personally I think the new Equalities Act is a good thing, it's there to protect people and to make sure everyone, whether a protected characteristic or not can do their job without fear of discrimination or abuse.

Is it ok to call someone at work a "black........." at work, even if joking? I don't think it is, it's 2014 not 1970.