35 replies to this topic

[M J W J]

Most people can take a joke but unfortunately it just takes that one a**hole with no sense of humour to ruin it for everyone and there usually always one.

 

When I worked at Wilkos there was a series of running jokes usually aimed at the girls. Most of them involved items from the kitchen department. We'd say things like "nice rack (insert employee's name)" when they were putting out a plate rack, "nice jugs" when it was pyrex jugs and "you got a nice set" when putting out a crockery set.

 

My mate John made one of the above jokes to a girl who afterwards gave him a really dirty stare for it. Luckily after he explained the joke she saw the funny side.

 

I wouldn't make a joke about someone after only working with them for a few days but 2 and 1/2 years later I would think someone would be able to tell if someone can take a joke/comment or not. If the allegations are genuine it begs the question of why were the complaints not made then, not after she has left?

 

As others have said there are many ways of dealing with issues before resorting to suing. If they have not been explored and there is little evidence to back up the accusations I would not worry. 

[Tubby1987]

SecretSugar the comment you said about a guy calling a woman love all the time, is a Yorkshire thing, most men in Yorkshire say things like 'ta love' or 'hiya love' etc, sometimes even older men in Yorkshire will say it to a younger bloke. But I did read that some women find it derogatory. I don't know why though because most who say it are just being friendly towards a female, in a nice way. It's just how us Yorkshire people speak :)

[Cooperman]

Perhaps not relevant, but a little story.

I had a young lady working for me and one morning she came in and told a couple of the other girls about a fantastic 'one night stand' she had just had with a guy she met in a club.

Then, when she went out for lunch, one of the other girls put a big note on her desk saying, 'Julia, call xxxxxx as soon as possible. It's urgent'.

When she dialled the number a voice said "Thank you for calling the STD Clinic". Julia went mental, but soon saw the funny side of it.

[Mini 360]

Perhaps not relevant, but a little story.

I had a young lady working for me and one morning she came in and told a couple of the other girls about a fantastic 'one night stand' she had just had with a guy she met in a club.

Then, when she went out for lunch, one of the other girls put a big note on her desk saying, 'Julia, call xxxxxx as soon as possible. It's urgent'.

When she dialled the number a voice said "Thank you for calling the STD Clinic". Julia went mental, but soon saw the funny side of it.

You have literally some of the most amazing stories.  Every post is something great!

[Cooperman]

I did the Scottish International Rally one year and we had a huge accident (I was co-driver in a Lotus-Cortina and we were leading on the first day).

When we got to the hotel in Aviemore, without the car, I met a good friend who was also doing the rally and had crashed. This was a young lady driver who also had been driving a Lotus-Cortina.

Anyway, after deciding that we had had a bigger accident than she had we had to get home to London from Aviemore. There were no hire cars to be found, so she and I got a lift to Glasgow Airport and managed to get two standby seats on a BEA Trident to Heathrow.

Now Jill knew that I had worked on the Trident and it turned out that she was nervous about flying (yes, really). She asked whether the Trident was a good aeroplane, adding, "I mean do they crash very often?". "No", I replied, "they usually only crash the once!" I hope that gave her some confidence .

A couple of years later she had to do the RAC Rally with a certain Jimmy Savile and said that was a really unpleasant experience. During the rally she was running a few minutes behind me and every time I spoke to her she said that she wished the car, an Escort RS1600, would break, which it did in Sutton Park. I asked her later what happened and she said "Piston Broke". I asked whether that was 2 words or 3 .

[Ethel]

I'd be surprised if there hasn't already been some attempt at arbitration. Quite often employers will offer a settlement just to save on their legal fees - you can't claim costs if you win a Tribunal hearing. If it does make it to Tribunal there are more issues than if she was harassed. Whether there was a suitable procedure in place for her to make a complaint, and whether she used it. The employer can't be responsible for the harrasment, only failing to take reasonable measures to protect her from it. Also, it's not a criminal trial, so she only has to make a more convincing account of events than her alleged abusers.

[RossKnight]

Came here out of curiosity, stayed for Cooperman's stories!

[Kieranlee999]

SecretSugar the comment you said about a guy calling a woman love all the time, is a Yorkshire thing, most men in Yorkshire say things like 'ta love' or 'hiya love' etc, sometimes even older men in Yorkshire will say it to a younger bloke. But I did read that some women find it derogatory. I don't know why though because most who say it are just being friendly towards a female, in a nice way. It's just how us Yorkshire people speak :)

that's right my granddad calls me love and duck and I say it even though im not old but the only time it doesn't sound right is when a family member from down near London says it It sound like something a villain would say in a film lol

[Cooperman]

We were discussing this yesterday at the Gliding Club and the general consensus is that in 'the old days' a good slap around the face, when necessary, quickly resolved these sort of harassment issues. In fact, just the threat of a slap would normally solve the problem. No bully, sexual or otherwise, would like the humiliation of being slapped in public by a girl.

[danm]

Interesting.

 

I work in a very small 5 man architectural firm run by a man and his wife as the secretary. There is one other architect who they treat as a son pretty much and he's been there 20 years; and two junior graduate architects (one is me).

 

I've been there for 3.5 years, and the wife is an absolute dragon. She just turned 65 and speaks vocally how she doesn't wish to be there, and is hellbent on making the day a misery for the two juniors.

 

In the last month alone, I have had the following said to me by her:

- 'What you been eating boy? You've put a lot of weight on, you're getting fatter!'

 

- (told her I didn't know if her office door was locked when asked) 'Yeah well, you don't know anything anyway'

 

- Been told off for not going upstairs, knocking on her door and exclusively saying good morning. Bear in mind she comes in 45 mins after me, and passes my office door first.

 

- Been outright blanked after purposely going to say good morning from the previous 'telling off'.

 

- 'I don't know why you work here, you are never satisfied with anything'. This was after she asked if I liked the fact they moved my desk downstairs, where it's really noisy and in front of a massive draught. I said it was exactly so, noisier and a bit chillier than before. I keep myself to myself.

 

- Was told this week as well that she bitches to the other young guy about me. I already knew, as she does the same about him when he is away, and even the older bloke when he isn't here. Whats worse is she goes to another room and whisper chats, and when you pass by, its silent. Apparently I am only working here 'as a hobby'. Very spiteful.

 

Oh, and when the boss (husband) is away, even for a few hours, she sits in his office chair at his desk. No reason, she has her own. Total power hungry demon.

I started recording it, as my friends and family thought I worked in the 1920's. So luckily, I now have some of the above documented. Some said I should hand it to them on a plate if they ever lay me off.

I'm already sorting a career change, so meh.

[mk3 Cooper S]

We were discussing this yesterday at the Gliding Club and the general consensus is that in 'the old days' a good slap around the face, when necessary, quickly resolved these sort of harassment issues. In fact, just the threat of a slap would normally solve the problem. No bully, sexual or otherwise, would like the humiliation of being slapped in public by a girl.

I agree with you but unfortunatley some men these days might slap them back!!

This could be down to the lack of respect for others and women but it could be partly due to equal rights and equality.

"you cant run with the fox and the hounds"

[Dan]

  And if someone is the type of person who is simply shy or withdrawn, cannot stand confrontation and just wants to quietly get on with their job they deserve to just keep taking the abuse and harassment because they should be able to sort it out for themselves I suppose?  Or a male being abused by a female superior should end it by belting her one in the canteen?  I can see that ending well.

 

  Sorry but this is an absurd argument.  Yes some people go too far chasing money and some are too touchy but equally there is a very good reason for the tribunal system and legal redress to exist.  There must be a requirement for employers to require suitable behaviour of their staff and tribunals are the only real way to enforce that.  A fair system will always be open to being exploited but that is why there are magistrates and arbitrators in charge and not simply an automatic response. The price of peace is eternal vigilance, or something like that.

[Cooperman]

Another aside, since you seem to like them:

 

I was once, in 1988, taken to a Tribunal by an employee whom I had dismissed 'on the spot' for gross industrial misfortune'. I won't go into it, but he had a position as a section leader at a really good salary and a car and was caught trying to 'poach' other employees of mine to work for one of my competitors (I guess he had been offered a 'bung' for each one he poached) which really angered me. I told him to leave the keys to his company car and leave my premises within 10 minutes, during which time he would be accompanied at all times.

Anyway, he took me a tribunal for 'wrongful dismissal' and the fact that I hadn't followed the rules by suspending him, carrying out a formal investigation, calling him back in and dismissing him went against me. The tribunal chairman, who had already annoyed me by asking stupid irrelevant questions than asked, "Would you consider re-employing Mr. xxxxx  on his previous terms & conditions?".

I replied, "Re-employ him, I wouldn't even p*ss on him if he was on fire!".

That didn't go down too well, as might be imagined and the Chairman said "Mr. Valentine, this is a formal tribunal". I replied that in that case he should try running it like one.

The result was that my company had to pay £3000. However, I then phoned a good friend in a similar business to mine and warned him about the duplicitous nature of the claimant, the word went around and he found it difficult to find another job. In fact, in our business I was a bit of a hero.

[Tanya]

If she has no proof then it is VERY jubious she will come out on top. What is it the guys have supposedly done - made comments? What were the comments. Does she dress to impress as this can be seen as encouragement. Also if she hasn't asked more tame comments to be stopped then she may well be seen as a tease and that she contributed to the situation and complained when she got out of her depth?

 

 

I am concerned by the comment  'Does she dress to impress as this can be seen as encouragement' as this should not be the case.  How someone chooses to dress in the workplace should never be used as an excuse for sexual harassment.  No more than a woman who at at 3.00am, having had a few drinks, walking alone on a back street, wearing a short shirt, deserves to be raped.  

 

There can be banter which is harmless, however, this is often a route for those who wish to sexually harass to start down and is used as excuse to justify sexual harassment.  Therefore, I also disagree with the comment 'Also if she hasn't asked more tame comments to be stopped then she may well be seen as a tease and that she contributed to the situation and complained when she got out of her depth?' as it is possible that woman didn't stop the initial comments as she took them as banter, which then progressed to sexual harassment.  

 

I echo Dan's comments and it is not uncommon for it to those women who are unable for whatever reason (previous sexual abuse, difficult personal circumstances etc) for those to be the women who men choose to sexually harass.  It can be very difficult for women in these circumstances to remain in the job and speak out. 

Edited by Tanya, 10 January 2014 - 03:24 PM.

[Tamworthbay]

If she has no proof then it is VERY jubious she will come out on top. What is it the guys have supposedly done - made comments? What were the comments. Does she dress to impress as this can be seen as encouragement. Also if she hasn't asked more tame comments to be stopped then she may well be seen as a tease and that she contributed to the situation and complained when she got out of her depth?

 
I am concerned by the comment  'Does she dress to impress as this can be seen as encouragement' as this should not be the case.  How someone chooses to dress in the workplace should never be used as an excuse for sexual harassment.  No more than a woman who at at 3.00am, having had a few drinks, walking alone on a back street, wearing a short shirt, deserves to be raped.  
 
There can be banter which is harmless, however, this is often a route for those who wish to sexually harass to start down and is used as excuse to justify sexual harassment.  Therefore, I also disagree with the comment 'Also if she hasn't asked more tame comments to be stopped then she may well be seen as a tease and that she contributed to the situation and complained when she got out of her depth?' as it is possible that woman didn't stop the initial comments as she took them as banter, which then progressed to sexual harassment.  
 
I echo Dan's comments and it is not uncommon for it to those women who are unable for whatever reason (previous sexual abuse, difficult personal circumstances etc) for those to be the women who men choose to sexually harass.  It can be very difficult for women in these circumstances to remain in the job and speak out.

I agree, except that I notice you only mention women being sexually harassed and this seems very common. The idea that it can happen to men is strangely forgotten, similar to those men who suffer domestic violence. It is not acceptable however it occurs and no matter who it occurs to. BUT we have to get away from the PC rubbish where people tread on eggshells. Men have a way of talking and acting, women do. Just because they aren't the same doesn't make one right and the other wrong. I love a bit of banter but save it for my social life and those few trusted colleagues.