15 replies to this topic

[OllyD]

Hello folks. I've just read with great dismay in a topic a couple of places down from this one that leaving primer to sit for any length of time is not advised since it will draw in moisture.

My problem is I'm about to conduct my first rebuid on a shoestring budget. I'm planning on stripping the paint, coating it in POR15 Metal ready followed by POR15 Etch primer. My budget means that I won't be able to afford to get the car topcoat for a good few months after i finissh, and i expect the bodywork to take a couple of months before that anyway. My car is going to be out on a drive, exposed to the elements, so whats the best course of action? Is there anything i can coat the primer in to protect it whilst it sits?

My other question is how much should i be buying of the metal ready and etch primer? The metal ready is avaiable in 590ml or 3.78 litres. The etch primer is available in 473ml or 946ml? What sort of quantities will cover a whole car? Are there any cheaper alternatives that offer the same level of protection? And finally does the etch primer need anything underneath it?


Lots of questions, hopefully someone can help me out.
Many thanks!

[jack_marshall]

Etch primer is good stuff and can go straight onto bare metal like any other primer.

Why are you bothered with the "Metal ready" stuff may I ask? Is it abit like kur-rust or whatever? Everybody hypes on about, but its C**p?

Be liberal with the etch primer and get hold of a weather proof sheet to keep the car under.

When it comes to the topcoat, you can rub the etch primer back quite abit (cause you've put plenty on remember!) put on some good cellulose or 2k primer and put on your top coat.

Thats what I would be doing anyway!

[OllyD]

Etch primer is good stuff and can go straight onto bare metal like any other primer.

Why are you bothered with the "Metal ready" stuff may I ask? Is it abit like kur-rust or whatever? Everybody hypes on about, but its C**p?

Be liberal with the etch primer and get hold of a weather proof sheet to keep the car under.

When it comes to the topcoat, you can rub the etch primer back quite abit (cause you've put plenty on remember!) put on some good cellulose or 2k primer and put on your top coat.

Thats what I would be doing anyway!

Ahh, so the etch primer needs a seperate primer on top of that before adding a topcoat? So in terms of layers i should have

Topcoat
-flatting-
Cellulose primer
-flatting-
Etch Primer
-flatting-
metal ready (?)
bare metal

It's interesting you say that about metal ready, you're the first comment i've read that says it's C**p. Everyone else has hailed it as being essential for extending a paintjob's life span. What makes you say otherwise?

Thanks!

[cooper_shaz]

Why are you bothered with the "Metal ready" stuff may I ask? Is it abit like kur-rust or whatever? Everybody hypes on about, but its C**p?

Sorry got to disagree about POR 15 metal ready, it will dissolve light surface rust and leave a zinc coating on the metal..

take a bit of steel and dip half in por 15, then soak the whole bit of metal and leave it for a week out doors and you will see the difference.

I have used it for approx 10 years now on everything from Vintage pedal cars to Rolls Royce and E-Type Jags, It is not hugely expensive and the benefits far outweigh the cost.

Krust etc that you paint ove rthe rust is not great as the rust is still there and i find paint does not adhere that well to it, and your not removing rust just covering it up.

the order you have things in is correct



(8) G3 polishing compound fo mirror finish

(7) 3 litres Topcoat - 2 coats - wet flat with P1000 2 coats wet flat with P1500 then P2000

(6) flatting- again dry flat P800 do not wet flat

(5) 3 litres Cellulose primer

(4) flatting- Dry flat with p400 - P600, do not wet flat at this stage
(3) 3 -4 litres Etch Primer
(2) 3.7 litres metal ready
(1) bare metal



here is my guide on getting the shine after you pain the car
click here for Shiny paint guide...!!

so bare metal, POR 15, fill any small dings etc, then POR 15 again.. 3.7litres of POR 15 will be adequate

Etch primer to do inside and out your looking at approx 3 litres

Primer approx 3 litres

and top coat the same amount.

With regards to leaving it outside on the drive exposed to the elements the body will rust again, even under a cover on a wet day the moisture in the air will cause this rust.

I would personally save a little and buy a litre of top coat and give it a coat of paint after the primer.

you can flat this back and paint over when you are ready to do the final finish but it will offer protection
and you will have everything masked up anyway..

[jack_marshall]

Ah right ok. I didnt say this "metal ready" is C**p! Because obviously I havnt used it.

I just asked if it was the same as the kurust stuff.. which you agree with me, is pretty pointless!

Are you going to paint with celulose or 2k? I prefer 2k anyday! I've found it to be harder, easier to buff up and it keeps its shine. Cellulose loses shine quickly and you have to keep buffing it back.

If your going to paint cellulose, possible consider laquering over it? I have laquered cellulose so it keeps its shiny and it is low maintenance.

Somebody will probably disagree with me

[Jammy]

I disagree with him^^^

[cooper_shaz]

Ah right ok. I didnt say this "metal ready" is C**p! Because obviously I havnt used it.

I just asked if it was the same as the kurust stuff.. which you agree with me, is pretty pointless!

Are you going to paint with celulose or 2k? I prefer 2k anyday! I've found it to be harder, easier to buff up and it keeps its shine. Cellulose loses shine quickly and you have to keep buffing it back.

If your going to paint cellulose, possible consider laquering over it? I have laquered cellulose so it keeps its shiny and it is low maintenance.

Somebody will probably disagree with me

Nope I have to agree..

Thats the trade off between cellulose and 2k, but in reality your looking at a booth to spray 2k properly.
Or at the very least the proper breathing equipment and a spray suit..

2k is togher than cellulose and more resistant to the elements, Cellulose will require polishing now and again, but it is not going to need re-polished every week.. twice a year would generally be enough.

[Guess-Works.com]

Surely the issue soon will be that for the home sprayer your only option will be celly, as 2k is being 'outlawed' by EU legislation the other option of water based paint needs drying rooms, but I believe it's 'going off' time is getting shorter...

but again, sure someone will disagree with that too !

[Sprocket]

I was under the impression that it was the cellulose that was being withdrawn due to solvent emissions, 2K will still be available and hence why its a bad thing for the home restorer. Dont know what these water based paints are going to be like. Personaly, the way I think about it is, water and metal react, so, why use water as the carrier for automotive paints, when you try and keep the water away from the bare metal??

[jack_marshall]

No, 2k base coat is being thrown out the window.

Everything will be made into base coat.. So now all the solid colors will need to be laquered to be made shiny.

The legislation is meant to be in full force by the end of next year.

Im not sure about cellulose, because it doesnt leave much C**p in the air like 2k...

An yes, booth is good idea for 2k, but theres no problem painting it somewhere else as long as its clean. We often do repairs out of the booth, just means sometime you have to flat more imperfections out. But yeah, cellulose is alot easier to paint out of a booth.

Any Jammy, what do you disagree with?

Oh and there is going to be alot of problems with new water based paints. Alot of people fear that paint matches will be really bad and also the fact that paint manufacturers arnt going to re-formulate alot of the old colors. (I think its colors before something like 1980)

[OllyD]

Ok thanks for all the help guys. I'm a bit concerned that I'm not going to be able to raise the cash to get it top coated for a while. I'm limited to the outside also, so I guess i'll just have to hope for dry weather!


Finally, how much of the prep work can i do myself without previous training? I'd like to get as much of it done myself to reduce the painting costs, but at the same time don't want my prep to ruin an otherwise well done paint job. Where's the cut off point for novices to say, "I'm done, it's your turn paintman"?

[cooper_shaz]

Where the cut off point is depends on the individual... so really there is not one...!!

It is technique along with skill level and the more you practice the better you get..

I have 2 lads I was showing painting techniques to.

I make them use spray cans to start with as they have no excuses saying paint was mixed different ,or air pressure, guns were different etc..

The end results they got can be like chalk and cheese yet the paint is the same..

If you learn to recognise the spray pattern as the paint hits the surface you can adapt your style and get great results.

As for the prep of the panels thats 90% of the job..

planish out the dents, high/ low spots, shrink/stretch metal to get the proper shape then tiny layers of filler
to remove very minor imperfections and rub your fingers over the surface to feel for imperfections
if you can feel them you will see them.

When you think you have it perfect prime the panel..
then using a black spray can of paint, dust some paint onto the panel and with a sanding board (make your own using a straight piece of timber of link attached below

sand down the panel.
any areas of black paint indicate a high or low spot in the panel. so you fix these and repeat the process.

it is not something you can really teach someone over a forum, there are loads of books out there and they are worth reading, especially when you consider the price of a book could save you 700 pounds plus in labour for a complete body pant job

Clicky for Sanding boards

hope this helps

[jack_marshall]

it is not something you can really teach someone over a forum

Nah, you cant teach it over a forum, but you do a pretty good job!

What I would suggest is read through this again and go have a practice. Maybe just find a few dinted panels or something? If you think your good enough, go onto the car.

Dont bodge it though. Ive known people fill over old paint and all sorts.. then bring the car and say its fully prepped. It isnt, cause you have to dig the filler out, strip to bare metal and start again.

http://www.amazon.co...8755447-7278009

That would be worth investing in! But wear some latex gloves when filling, or you'll be picking bits off your fingers for days

[Lomcevac]

My two pennies worth for what it's worth.

As the car is outdoors I would advise against removing the old paint until you are in a position to put top coat on somehow, even if it's temporary.

POR 15 Metal Ready is great stuff!

Cooper Shaz should write a book.

[OllyD]

Could i just use any old cheapo aerosol top coat from halfords as a lay-by, then sand it off when i want to have it properly sprayed? Or would this require prep to begin all over again?