16 replies to this topic

[minisi35]

Just wondering what sump guards people are using on their rally cars

 

I currently use a RAC Scottish dural sumpguard and have recently acquired an extension for it but due to the exhaust I would have to fit quite thick spacers at the back and the angle to miss the exhaust would cause it to hang quite low.

 

Love to see other peoples to see if there is a better option

Thanks Simon

[rally1380]

Same here really.  Have the curved 'scottish' guard and would also like to fit the extension piece.

 

I bought mine new and it came with nylon spacers about 1" think...but even at that thickness the Y piece on the manifold would touch.

 

I had a look under a MK2 escort rally car a few weeks back and the guard on that was very low compared to how 'tucked up' the guards on a mini are, so the best method may by to drop the front guard slightly to allow the extension to fit.

 

Failing that, I was tempted to cut my lovely Maniflow LCB so the Y piece sits a bit higher....but at the price they are I don't fancy it, and it would probably alter the performance!!!!

[minisi35]

My extension is the same  with the nylon mounts but I cannot see how you would use the mounts as they are in the wrong place

[rally1380]

My extension is the same  with the nylon mounts but I cannot see how you would use the mounts as they are in the wrong place

 

Put up a photo and i'll see if it's the same as mine.

[Rob Jones]

I have a steel scottish guard on mine, with a 3mm steel extension. The extension has been cut where the exhaust would catch and a U shaped (exhaust off a cummins mobile crane engine) grafted in. It is secured at the back with Fiesta rear shock mounting rubbers (2.5" diameter) between the extension and floor. Has worked for twenty years in the forests, without problems.

[Cooperman]

I've not found an extension really necessary for UK Historic events unless they are all forest based. But I have the Cooper 'S' remote gear-change rather than the more vulnerable rod type.

For rally rough events it is best to raise the car up a bit more and fit the extension with spacers as necessary. However, make sure the spacers are not so high that they put stress on the actual main mountings between front guard & sub-frame. 

I was lucky to get an all alloy guard which was a prototype for a proposed production version, but it would have been too expensive for general sale and I bought it for a few quid from the guy who developed it. I can pick it up with 1 finger, but it is really strong and has taken a huge hammering over the years.

[minisi35]

Well after Robs and Coopermans advice this is what I came up with
I found a piece of 4mm alloy that was the same width as the sump guard but longer than the extension that came with it.
The Perspex blocks that came with the extension have been used to mount it to the floor and I've curved the back of it slightly to help give the exhaust clearance

[Cooperman]

Are those rubber sub-frame mountings? The front sub-frame absolutely MUST be solid mounted with steel mountings on a rally car. 

Rubber mountings will fail on the first rough stage and then it'll be retirement from the event.

[minisi35]

Guilty as charged im afraid, I had the solid mounts to begin with but the state of the roads around here it felt awful so I resorted back to the standard ones.

I will give them another try and see if I can get used to them

[Cooperman]

Always remember the rubber mounts were introduced for the change in perceived customers from younger people to middle aged ladies.

Now, what does that tell you about yourself  .

The successful rally Minis were the Mk.1 and Mk.2 cars and they all had solid mounted front sub-frames as standard.

[minisi35]

old ladies how dare you lol.

As you know you have to have the "feeling" with the car to drive it well, with the solid mounts I lost the feeling.

It could be just a matter of me getting used to it being different

[keefr22]

Is there no 'halfway house' when it comes to subframe mounts? Something like polyurethane bush material or somesuch?

[Rob Jones]

Simon, here is a pic of my sumpguard ...

 

 

When fitted there's approx 3/4" space around the exhaust.

[minisi35]

Thanks Rob that's fantastic I will have to fabricate something like that. I had curved the back of mine to help with the clearance which has helped.

The Moonbeam rally that I ran as course car last Saturday was very rough and the new piece worked great though with it being mounted to the floor it has flexed slightly and the exhaust touches on hard acceleration. I have plans to plate the area and weld a nut on for ease of removal

[Cooperman]

Is there no 'halfway house' when it comes to subframe mounts? Something like polyurethane bush material or somesuch?

No, the poly bushes are dreadful and don't sort the issue.

All Minis from 1959 until the mid-70's had proper solidly mounted sub-frames. This is what gave the Mini its legendary steering response and great overall 'feel'.

The rubber mountings were, as I said earlier, just to help meet the new target-market of middle-aged women instead of the 'younger' element who were then moving on to cars like the Fiesta, Escort, etc.

The sub-frame needs to be bolted to the monocoque body-shell as Sir Alec always intended in order to take the suspension loads directly into the structure rather than into flexible mountings.

All you are doing when fitting solid steel mountings is putting the car back as it was intended to be and thus achieving the original 'feel' of the car.