32 replies to this topic

[Mini118118]

Guys are full harness seat belts road legal, and will they pass an MOT.. Also does anyone know the best way to fit and still be able to use the rear seats..thanks

[cal844]

You can fit them but they won't be safe...

[CityEPete]

Shall I set off the Qi style buzzer then... "why would they be unsafe?" Nee naw nee naw!

[Mini 360]

You can fit them but they won't be safe...

Sorry Cal but thats b*llocks.

 

Harnesses are legal.  Fitted correctly to a harness bar and reinforced side points, they are very safe indeed.  Rear seats wont be useable though due to the harnesses taking up the space where you would sit.

 

I can confirm they are safe as they saved me from spearing through my windscreen last year.  Helf me so well i had a bruised chest for a few weeks where they held me in place in the seat.  Cant say the same for ordinary belts.

[CityEPete]

My mate and mot tester binned his supercharged civic type r on the way from Spa to the Nurburgring last year, the official german police report sent to his insurance stated that although the car was heavily modded and all declared etc (450bhp!) The harnesses had 100% saved both his and the passengers life even if it was at the cost of their ribs and a few red raw areas!

[Dan]

I think he was referring to them not being safe if fitted in a way that allows the rear seats to be used.

They are only legal if they are E marked, have a push button type buckle, and are permanently bolted in. But I believe any harness can pass an MOT as the test does not include checking for marks. The test accepts an adult harness as replacement for any seatbelt layout. MOT does not check your car is fully compliant with the law. No, you will not be able to use all the seats if harnesses are fitted properly.

[CityEPete]

Could you fit both, use the standard ones when people are in the back? My other car hasnt got any belts anyway

[Tamworthbay]

Quick release harnesses are also legal as long as they carry BS marks (check supplier, not all do). From the MOT tester manual:


An adult harness belt comprising a lap belt and shoulder straps bearing a British standard marking is an acceptable alternative to any of the seat belt types listed.

In reality any FIA type will also pass an MOT 99.999999% of the time as the average mot inspector knows that they are safer and in the event of a roll in particular. Check the car park at your next rally and play spot the BS mark, you won't find them in all that's for sure (none of our Sabelt ones have a BS mark but our Willans one does).

[Dan]

Sort of. You can fit the lap sections of all the standard belts with screw eyes instead of screws, and then use a clip in harness when you want to so that it can be clipped out leaving the normal belts in place. But to make a clip in belt legal on the road you have to lock wire the clips so they can't open easily. It means it's fiddly to swap the harness in and out but is perfectly possible. A front seat harness isn't quite perfect when the shoulder straps are fixed at the bottom of the rear bulkhead like this but it is acceptable.

[Mini 360]

Could you fit both, use the standard ones when people are in the back? My other car hasnt got any belts anyway

The harnesses will still be in the way though.........

[cal844]

I think he was referring to them not being safe if fitted in a way that allows the rear seats to be used.

They are only legal if they are E marked, have a push button type buckle, and are permanently bolted in. But I believe any harness can pass an MOT as the test does not include checking for marks. The test accepts an adult harness as replacement for any seatbelt layout. MOT does not check your car is fully compliant with the law. No, you will not be able to use all the seats if harnesses are fitted properly.

I should have said.. If you wish to use the back seats you can't have harnesses

[Tamworthbay]

A front seat harness isn't quite perfect when the shoulder straps are fixed at the bottom of the rear bulkhead like this but it is acceptable.

sorry but this is potentially dangerous advice. The angle to the seat base is outside the recommended angle for four point harnesses and could result in significant crush injuries in the event of crash. A brilliant guide to mounting is here:

http://www.ioportrac...nstructions.pdf

Page 24 covers mounting angles.

[CityEPete]

Could you fit both, use the standard ones when people are in the back? My other car hasnt got any belts anyway

The harnesses will still be in the way though.........

As others have pointed out some unclippable belts are mot worthy, unclip them and use the standard belt.

[Dan]

MOT worthy doesn't mean legal. The IVA is a much better indication of what is road legal than the MOT because it is actually checking for legality. Any clip in harness will only pass IVA with the clips wired shut.

My apologies for what I said about mounting angles above if it is wrong. It has always been considered safe to mount at up to 45 degrees below the shoulder to my knowledge, I have not seen this publication before and I will have to bear it in mind in future. Of course road vehicles don't generally experience the same sort of accidents that race cars do which is why the rules are different, and we don't use HANS, but there are freak accidents and you should fully consider safety when you change anything from standard. So I guess this means there really is no way to use harnesses and still have the rear seats, because to comply with these mounting instructions in a Mini really demands a harness bar of some form.

[CityEPete]

I'd only go for harnesses in a fully caged car with no rear seat anyway.