9 replies to this topic

[minilink]

Hi everyone,

I ran into a starter issue tonight, hoping to seek some guidance. 

When i was leaving work, around 8pm, the car was freezing cold after all day of rain, and I tried to start the car. Pulled out  the choke and started cranking. After several tries it still wouldn't start. I read from the FAQ not to crank the starter too long, so most of the attempts were around 6 seconds, except a couple times in the beginning i held it for about 10-15 seconds to get the oil pressure up.

After trying for 5 minutes or so, i heard a "thunk" during cranking. then the starter stopped responding. I can still hear the sound of the solenoid kicking each time i turn the key. But nothing from the starter after that. 

did i break my starter? do I need a new one? 

 

the battery is suppose to be new according to the previous owner. headlights and gauge lights turn on just fine. When i turn the key to start, the headlight and gauge light will dim until I release the key from cranking position.

the solenoid clicks when i crank, so it seems like it's working. Just not the motor since after i hear the "thunk".  I read on MM forum someone suggests to hammer the starter because possible jammed at the flywheel. Should i try that? I've never beat on a moving car part with a hammer before..

Any info would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance

- Link

Edited by minilink, 01 April 2014 - 07:38 AM.

[cal844]

Give the body of te starter a few hits with the shaft of a hammer, whilst someone holds the key in the crank position :)

[Carlos W]

Put the car in gear and rock it backwards and forwards.

[cal844]

Or as carlos says ;)

[minilink]

Thanks for the quick reply guys. I will give both a try tomorrow. 

[dklawson]

Link, I think you now have two issues to deal with.  Unless your car was always hard to start, I suspect you have a starter issue and a general starting/running issue to deal with.

 

Give us a bit more information about your car so we can be thinking about this while you try and coax the starter back to life.  What age is your Mini?  Which type of starter does it have (inertia or pre-engaged)?  Was the car hard to start before?  When was it last serviced?  Has any work at all been carried out recently on the car?

[minilink]

Link, I think you now have two issues to deal with.  Unless your car was always hard to start, I suspect you have a starter issue and a general starting/running issue to deal with.

 

Give us a bit more information about your car so we can be thinking about this while you try and coax the starter back to life.  What age is your Mini?  Which type of starter does it have (inertia or pre-engaged)?  Was the car hard to start before?  When was it last serviced?  Has any work at all been carried out recently on the car?

 

Thank you for the reply.  I've only had the car for 2 weeks and since i got it, my car always had difficult cold start even with the choke open. But once the engine warms up, it starts within a second of cranking. Once started, the car runs great.   Last night after all day raining, the car is wet and extremely cold, so even with long cranking the car wouldn't turn over.

 

My mini titled 1961 mk1 but looks to be converted to mk3ish. I believe the last time it was serviced was about 5 years ago, the last owner had only changed the battery, oil, brakes and tyres for the 2 years he's owned it.   

 

according to the year, the car should have inertia type starter. But I'm not sure so i'll post a picture tomorrow after i remove the grill.  

 

Yesterday it cranked and had a 'thunk' and after that only make "click" solenoid sound when i try to crank. so This is what I've tried today

 

- Rolled the car back and forth while putting in first gear and reverse gear

- Push start the car several attempts

- Hitting the starter with a rubber mallet while turning and holding the key in cranking position. (i hit the starter from the front by removing the grill).

- Remove and replaced the battery with a brand new optima red top

 

All of these didn't work. my starter is still just 'click', 'click' solenoid sound when i turn the key. 

[dklawson]

Do you have a multimeter?  If so, have a friend turn the key to the start position while you use the multimeter to measure the voltage between an earthing spot and the point where the cable connects to the starter motor.  (If you do not have or cannot borrow a multimeter, make a test lamp with a turn signal bulb and some lengths of wire).  With the key held in the start position, the solenoid should click closed and you should find battery voltage on the starter motor cable.  If you find battery voltage on the end of the starter motor cable, you have a starter motor issue.  If you do not find battery voltage on the end of the cable, that susggests a problem with the cable or the solenoid.

 

Once the non-start issue is resolved, it surely sounds like you need to give this car a proper and complete tune up.  I have posted this several places before but it bears repeating here.

• Set the valve clearances with the engine cold.
• Inspect the spark plug cables, distributor cap, distributor rotor, and replace any that look worn, cracked, or are carbon tracked.  When working with spark plugs or their wires, remove and replace them one at a time so you do not get the firing order wrong.
• After 5 years, fit new spark plugs, points, and condenser. 
• Gap the points correctly and then static time the engine for its initial re-start.  Once started and at temperature you can leave the car static timed or dynamically time it for best running. 

My Mini is also hard to start but mine sits for two weeks or more between starts so I rather expect it to be difficult.  However, after the first start on any given day, or if I drive it daily for a while, it is not hard starting.

[minilink]

Thank you dklawson,

 

Last week and over the weekend, I did some trouble shooting. With the multimeter, the starter was getting current. I also turn the little square bolt on the right side of the starter, it was free spinning even turning it by hand. So I figured the starter is totally dead and ordered a new Bosch starter. Droped it in, and sure enough, it cranks the engine like normal.  But I still have to crank for a long time before i was able to start. Long story short, after trying for a while and the car turned over, I tested the carb pin and the engine died. From reading the Haynes manual, that's sign of the car running too lean. Sure enough, i richen it up, and the car starts every time with a snap. I just had to lower the idle rpm after more fuel.

 

Next step i will find time to do more refined tuning and check valve clearance and ignition timing. The car runs a bit hot, somewhere between the "N" mark and "H". Hopefully it's just the gauge itself, and not ignition timing/head leak related ... I'll have to do more investigation with a IR temp sensor.

 

Thanks again for all your help and info.

[Carlos W]

It could still be too lean, or the timing could be out!

It may be worth setting it up on a rolling road