Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Expanding Foam In Box Sections


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 HarrysMini

HarrysMini

    I do not have short legs!!!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,352 posts
  • Location: .

Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:55 PM

So I'm looking at ways to make my Mini quieter without adding too much extra weight, as it'll be a daily driver. 

 

I was thinking about filling box sections (such as the floor crossmember, but not the sills) with expanding foam, to try and cut out resonance and act as a sound deadener. I know some modern cars have this, so there must be some sense in the idea.

 

I would first rust proof the cavity with a cavity wax product (Dynax S-50).

 

Would there be any downsides to this? Do you think it would trap moisture?



#2 Tamworthbay

Tamworthbay

    Crazy About Mini's

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,025 posts
  • Name: Clive
  • Location: Tamworth
  • Local Club: A5 minis

Posted 05 July 2014 - 03:58 PM

It will trap moisture and aid rusting, then be a nightmare if you come to weld due to the fire risk and toxic fumes. It was used on a few cars in the 60s and discontinued when they found it was worse than not having it.

#3 Ben_O

Ben_O

    Mill Road Garage

  • Paint Doctor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,794 posts
  • Location: Isle of Wight

Posted 05 July 2014 - 04:03 PM

We had a Mini advantage about 10 years ago that leaked from the rear bins due to holes in the sills so against my advice, my mum's bloke at the time filled the rear bins with expanding foam and then shaved the overspill off where it came out of the sills expecting it to solve the problem. 

 

Infact it made it much worse as the foam soaked up the water like a sponge and then rotted MUCH more of the car out.

 

To be honest, what is the point in trying to sound proof a Mini?

 

The noise is part of the character and what ever you do, it will never be 'quiet' so you may as well keep it simple and use dynamat etc

 

Ben



#4 HarrysMini

HarrysMini

    I do not have short legs!!!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,352 posts
  • Location: .

Posted 05 July 2014 - 04:08 PM

As I thought really. 

 

I'm just trying to make it a bit more refined to be honest, with a 3.44 FDR it is by no means a motorway vehicle, but it would be nice to just cut out on the road noise a little, without adding too much extra weight.



#5 Tamworthbay

Tamworthbay

    Crazy About Mini's

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,025 posts
  • Name: Clive
  • Location: Tamworth
  • Local Club: A5 minis

Posted 05 July 2014 - 04:11 PM

Earplugs?

#6 jamesmpi

jamesmpi

    Camshaft & Stage Two Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,940 posts
  • Location: Chichester
  • Local Club: Abingdon Mini Owners Club

Posted 05 July 2014 - 04:31 PM

Modern cars don't use the expanding foam that you buy in a rattle can, it's a different composition. Plus the heat the whole body to set it using massive ovens.

#7 HarrysMini

HarrysMini

    I do not have short legs!!!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,352 posts
  • Location: .

Posted 05 July 2014 - 04:50 PM

Modern cars don't use the expanding foam that you buy in a rattle can, it's a different composition. Plus the heat the whole body to set it using massive ovens.

No I assume they didn't just go to B&Q and get some cans of Fix & Fill  :lol:

I guess it's a formulation that doesn't absorb water? 

 

The only reason I said was because I noticed our MINI R53 has foam in the front end box sections.



#8 jamesmpi

jamesmpi

    Camshaft & Stage Two Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,940 posts
  • Location: Chichester
  • Local Club: Abingdon Mini Owners Club

Posted 05 July 2014 - 05:41 PM

They call is cavity wax and is injected into any enclosed space like in the floor, doors etc. They then place the body on a tilting station that tips it up at the front and back to ensure an even distribution. Then it's heated to solidify it....but it's never fully set. On hot days it's been known for the wax to drip out onto the floors on the assembly hall.

#9 Sean C

Sean C

    Mini Mad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 196 posts
  • Location: West Lothian
  • Local Club: ESMOC

Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:05 PM

My spi is pretty quiet and the only soundproofing I have is a heavy duty household carpet underlay. It's about 10mm thick and it really does quieten it down 



#10 The Clubby Hubby

The Clubby Hubby

    Super Mini Mad

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 555 posts
  • Location: south bucks
  • Local Club: Friends with minibitz

Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:26 PM

I love that my daily driver completely deafens me and rattles bits off constantly it gives it character!



#11 Harrison541

Harrison541

    A bowl of prawns, avocado and cress?

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 498 posts
  • Location: Merseyside

Posted 05 July 2014 - 09:37 PM

Look on the bright side, it drowns out the sound of your girlfriend winging away...

#12 FlyingScot

FlyingScot

    Up Into Fourth

  • TMF Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,664 posts
  • Location: Inverclyde Scotland
  • Local Club: Mini Cooper Register

Posted 05 July 2014 - 09:43 PM

Glass wool insulation. Doesn't absorb water and can be used in dense layers under the carpets and also in bins and sills.

FS

Edited by FlyingScot, 05 July 2014 - 09:43 PM.


#13 adam_93rio

adam_93rio

    Up Into Fourth

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,271 posts

Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:06 PM

Come for a ride in mine and you will appreciate how quiet yours is

#14 Shifty

Shifty

    Sponsored by Fosters (tm)

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,139 posts
  • Name: Sean
  • Location: Shropshire(sunny)
  • Local Club: TMF

Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:51 PM

My Mpi is pretty quiet, the low final drive helps.  



#15 mab01uk

mab01uk

    Moved Into The Garage

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,416 posts
  • Local Club: Mini Cooper Register

Posted 06 July 2014 - 08:53 AM

Very early 1960's Mini sills and A posts were foam filled at the factory to try to cure water leaks. The early flat outer sills were constructed differently to later Minis as part of the floor and had no external vents or seams, so the lap joint which leaked, was inside on the inner sills under the carpet.......an error by Issigonis who had designed it that way to make construction of the car simpler in third world countries. The theory was the complete one piece floor with outer sills incorporated could be placed on the ground and allow the body panels to be constructed on top with minimal complex factory jigs or tooling required.  One of the early 1960's Mini books did tell the story of leaks and foam in some detail, including the figures on improved torsional body stiffness achived.

 

Sometime ago I contributed a rare scanned copy of the BMC (Austin) Service Memorandum A1277 - A356 to the Mk1 website which is a collection of Austin service memoranda dating from August 1959 through to 1961, covering those chaotic early days when the problems were being found in the new car and solutions had to be found quick.

BMC Document Archive (scroll down halfway to blue covers):

http://mk1-performan...actory_docs.htm

 

The water leaks are covered for Dealers to fix and the foam welding problems are pointed out with diagrams.

See page 13 here:

http://mk1-performan...-61mini-pt4.pdf

 

Factory foam in Mini's was discontinued because of the cost and as only a tempory measure once the water leak had been fixed by a redesign of the floorpan/sills. Also the health and safety risk during welding was perhaps a consideration (see link above).  BL are reputed to have bought back some of the early foam filled cars in the late 1960s to investigate, and found negligible corrosion in the foam filled sills.

I have personally restored several early Mini's with foam filled sills and the main reason they had survived so long was because the foam filled sills were still very solid and reasonably rust free as air and water had been excluded......much more so than younger later open vented sill Mini's.

 

With the later vented outer sills with external lap joint if you get water up inside them most of it will will run out again onto the ground below. Providing it's got a good coating of paint and waxoyl injected inside (like some modern cars), rust is minimised but only a few Mini enthusiasts bother to do this and it was never done at the factory so rusty sills are common !.

If you fill the later sills with foam it will retain the water and cause accelerated corrosion and be a nightmare when it comes to welding.


Edited by mab01uk, 06 July 2014 - 10:51 AM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users