16 replies to this topic

[Bradshaw-s]

Hi guys,

Does Red Line Wetter do the same job as distilled water - primarily to stop corrosion/cavitation?

Or would it be better to use both?

Si

[Cerberus]

Distilled water is a waste of money.

 

Water Wetter, not sure, I think it's supposed to make the water more slippery or something, and able to better transfer the heat from the engine to the water.

 

It's probably not really needed.  Better to make sure the cooling system is in top condition.

[zerobelow]

If you can't use standard coolant for some reason, and if water wetter is allowed, then it's a god idea, even if just for the purpose of preventing corrosion. If you're somewhere it can get to or near freezing, just use standard coolant, and them switch to plain water for events where coolant isn't allowed.

[Broomer]

Distilled water is a waste of money.
 
Water Wetter, not sure, I think it's supposed to make the water more slippery or something, and able to better transfer the heat from the engine to the water.
 
It's probably not really needed.  Better to make sure the cooling system is in top condition.

If you have spent a fortune building a good engine spend the couple quid on distilled water.
I would only use it in my engines.

Water wetter how ever I personally don't see the point.

[dklawson]

Water Wetter is not for corrosion protection nor is it a water pump lubricant.  It is a surfactant that is used to improve the ability of the water to contact the cast iron surfaces and therefore... improve heat transfer.  It does make a difference in extreme conditions but you are not supposed to use it with ethylene-glycol antifreeze as that reduces the effect.  Water Wetter does not lower the freezing point of the coolant so it is NOT recommended for use in winter. 

 

I have no experience with using distilled water as coolant but I cannot see where it would be better than "regular" tap water. 

[zerobelow]

Water Wetter is not for corrosion protection nor is it a water pump lubricant. 

 

http://www.redlineoi...?pid=74&pcid=10

 

As for not corrosion protection:

"Rust and corrosion protection allows for use of straight water in racing or reduced antifreeze levels in warm climates

 

As for the other note re: not compatible with ethelyne glycol, the manufacturer also lists this on their info page:

"Compatible with new or used antifreeze (including DEX-COOLTM and long-life versions) to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems"

 

And as for not water pump lubricant:

"Cleans and lubricates water pump seals"

 

Granted, those are all just manufacturer claims, so who knows how true they are, or if they are as good as other coolant...

[zerobelow]

 

I have no experience with using distilled water as coolant but I cannot see where it would be better than "regular" tap water. 

 

As for distilled water, my understanding is that it is not supposed to be any better at cooling, however, the lack of metals/minerals and other stuff in the water that was removed during the distillation process, may help prevent deposits, and some types of corrosion. Think of it as "clean" water. However, there seems to be debate as to whether it makes any real difference, or just sounds good in theory. 

[Captain Mainwaring]

 

 

I have no experience with using distilled water as coolant but I cannot see where it would be better than "regular" tap water. 

 

As for distilled water, my understanding is that it is not supposed to be any better at cooling, however, the lack of metals/minerals and other stuff in the water that was removed during the distillation process, may help prevent deposits, and some types of corrosion. Think of it as "clean" water. However, there seems to be debate as to whether it makes any real difference, or just sounds good in theory. 

 

 

I'll destroy a couple of myths. In the first instance what causes corrosion is a cooling system that needs constant topping up, once water has been in a cooling system and run for a bit, any dissolved oxygen will cause a little bit of iron oxide formation and then no further corrosion - the same is true with DM water, it still has dissolved oxygen present and thus there will still be some tiny initial corrosion.

 

Sure there are little or no dissolved minerals in DM water, but what there is in tap water will only cause a tiny build up of calcium based deposits after the initial fill, after that, nothing.

 

Issues start when you are filling up the cooling system every two minutes for what ever reason.

Central heating systems are the same - take an old style heating system with an open header tank, there will be a constant source of oxygen ready to be dissolved into the circulating water, causing corrosion of the heat exchanger if it's cast iron - the constant evaporation from an open header also causes fresh minerals to be introduced into the system continuously, causing scale build up.

 

Household analogy would be using a kettle - keep drawing hot water and there will be a scale build up - but little will happen if you keep boiling the same water again and again - the only difference is that once boiled water will boil slightly quicker than "fresh" water - anyone know why?

 

Modern fully pressurized systems in good condition that rarely need repressurizing will run clean for years as there is no topping up of circulating water.

 

For obvious reasons we use DM water in steam heating systems - with a big boiler capable of evaporating 100 tonnes of water an hour, there is ample scope for corrosion - we return as much condensate as we can, it's already DM water and any additional water is DM'ed and further more degassed before use. The boiler is regularly "blown-down" to prevent oxygen build up on the shell of the boiler and subsequent corrosion.

 

There are many "wetters" available and they will only help in a cooling system that is just on it's limit, and you won't see huge reductions of temperature from using one.

 

In short, you won't go too far wrong using water and an inhibitor in a standard car - In any car DM water will probably have no benefits whatsoever.

 

As an add on - take a look at some of the products made by Fernox - Alphi-11 may well be perfect.

 

As a further add on, do be careful what inhibitor you use if you have installed an alloy radiator in a system with a CI block and a copper heater matrix

Edited by Captain Mainwaring, 15 July 2014 - 11:20 PM.

[bikewiz]

So to somewhat answer the question, I use distilled water 60/40 with standard green glycol based antifreeze and the recommended amount of Redline Water Wetter. For what it's worth look at the antifreeze container they recommend distilled water. Does it make a difference?Who knows but for the price of everything it was pretty cheap to go all in. My car has had issues with cooling like most minis run in reasonably warm climates, it doesn't anymore. So you can take water from your dehumidifier, which is distilled and is basically free or you can use tap water with an unknown mineral content unless you happen to have access to a lab to check it or your local government is required to list the average content. For the amount of coolant in a mini why not use distilled water? Regardless if it doesn't make a difference in corrosion it will make a difference in mineral deposits.

[dklawson]

http://www.redlineoi...?pid=74&pcid=10

 

As for not corrosion protection:..

 

 

 

Thank you for the updated information.  It has been 5 years since I last bought Water Wetter. I still have a bit left in that old bottle so I checked the label.   On the old product label the product claims stat that there was only an 8 degree F drop in temperature when the recommended percentage of Water Wetter was added to a 50/50 antifreeze water mix.  That 8 degree drop supposedly corresponded to running straight water without antifreeze.  The largest benefit of a 26 degree F drop was seen when the coolant was a mix of straight water and Water Wetter without any antifreeze.  They also recommended changing the coolant once a year.  My comments about water pump lubrication and corrosion were based on anecdotal information from others I know who have used Water Wetter.  Perhaps they did not change the coolant annually as recommended.

 

Regardless, thanks again for posting the information and product link.

[zerobelow]

Also, I noticed that redline also has a version of the wetter (for diesel) which doesn't have the corrosion and lubricant package. So they do seem to have different products.

[Captain Mainwaring]

The minerals dissolved in a mini cooling system water fill are tiny. First thing is not all of the minerals will actually end up sticking to anything, second, this only happens when you completely drain and refill the cooling system.

 

It's also important to realize that additives won't increase the SHC of the coolant - you'll do well to improve over water, all that you may do may do is aid heat transfer as a result of "wetting"

[Captain Mainwaring]

Also, I noticed that redline also has a version of the wetter (for diesel) which doesn't have the corrosion and lubricant package. So they do seem to have different products.

 

 

I just read their bumpf......hmmm can it really allow more spark adavnce? Rubbish.

As for a version that is different for a diesel engine..... hmmm

[AGRO_RB]

Can sort of see the point of a diesel version, as diesel engines are subject to massive amounts of heat due to, obviously, their combustion method.

 

Nothing that a quality coolant couldn't fix though, surely...

 

I've never ran anything in my Minis except premix, and so far, so good.

[Captain Mainwaring]

Can sort of see the point of a diesel version, as diesel engines are subject to massive amounts of heat due to, obviously, their combustion method.

 

Nothing that a quality coolant couldn't fix though, surely...

 

I've never ran anything in my Minis except premix, and so far, so good.

 

 

Hmmm not really. Diesels are much more thermally efficient than petrol engines..

 

Surely I'd use the most efficient version of coolant i could get wouldn't I?  

 

People in the sport bike world tend to use water wetters when they have cooling problems, but it generally comes around to just fixing the problem in the first place - most cooling systems are just about up to the job if things stay as the OEM designed.