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Another Lynx Kit Racetool Project


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#1 Helldriver

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 08:00 PM

Hi all,

 

my name is Chris and I live in Switzerland at the Zürich lake. I fulfilled myself the long for wish and will build up a classic race mini as fun track tool for me.

After racing several years in mini challenge with the new minis I though it was time for a 500kg and 200hp track tool as I always wanted to go back to the roots to a classic mini. Another major reason for the classic was that I started to hate trailering and the classic mini fits in the back of a transporter e.g.. Fiat Ducato. No more with 80km/h over several hours the highway from or to switzerland, the Ducato is good for 160kmh :-) Already on the search for a suitable large wheelbase Ducato for a good price....

 

Origin of this project is that I came across a ex BCT-Mini which was only raced one season in 2009 and then put on into garage due to family, kids and house. Last year he sold A-series engine with gearbox but saved the rest as it easy to get a new engine but nearly impossible to get a complete rust free race shell. This year twins came unplanned and he had to realize that racing won't happen soon and sold me the complete car without engine/gearbox.

So perfect setup to swap an R1 into it.

Why an R1 engine:

a) R1 is more powerful and less weight then A-Series

b) R1 engine is much with 500 to 800 Euro incl.  semi-sequential gearbox much cheaper then modded A-Series, have already 3 engines so if I blow one up don't care. Yes you have to invest once into conversion kit but follow up costs are cheap.

c) I love that sound

d) perfect combination for circuit racing and swiss slalom tracks: long first gear, other have to switch gear twice and in 1000ccm class only twingo&co will compete against me, R1 Mini eats them for breakfast) 

 

setup planned:

as I said I want to come close to 200hp, there are 2 ways: heavily modify the R1 or add a soft turbo or turbocharger to it.

I will try to add the supercharger, plan at the moment is the eaton m45 from the old mercedes SLK. Soft means only approx 0,3 bar as I want to keep the r1 internal standard.

In Phase 1 I will

- swap in the lynx kit with a polestar ecu

- fit upgraded cooling, accusump and oilcooler

- modify steering and seat setup to fit a 192cm tall guy, me :-) seat and belt are from 2008 so needs replacement due to FIA rules anyhow.

- fit one piece composite flip front

- throw everything out that has no function

- convert 13 inch to 10inch wheels

- get the car race ready and get experience with it in 2015

Phase 2 will be:

- fit the supercharger

- convert the chain drive to a belt drive

 

As I am a newbee with the classic mini I hope I will get some support here and already excuse myself for some idiotic or simple questions I may ask. Have a well sorted and heated own workshop where I prep my cars and modify them.

 

So today I started the project and:

- took of the metal front

- took of driver door

- started to sort out the existing electric setup what is what and mark it

- ordering the lynx cradle and buffle sump plate

 

pics will follow soon.


Edited by Helldriver, 21 November 2014 - 08:04 PM.


#2 roadhouse

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 08:28 PM

Exciting... I'll be following your build closely as you'll be a little ahead of me on the engine conversion. My shell is still being worked on. 

 

Looking forward to pictures. 



#3 roadhouse

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 08:34 PM

I see you're planning on using the Polestar ECU... what are the benefits of that over having Lynx modify the R1 and original mini harness? Just curious as I was planning to have them modify mine but currently I only have the R1 harness, no mini harness. 



#4 Helldriver

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 08:02 PM

I see you're planning on using the Polestar ECU... what are the benefits of that over having Lynx modify the R1 and original mini harness? Just curious as I was planning to have them modify mine but currently I only have the R1 harness, no mini harness.

For the original ECU you need to buy:
- power commander
- exup deleter
- speedo healer
- AIS
- modified original loom (cost 200pounds)
- rolling rod mapping

- R1 instrument cluster/speedometer (around 200Euro on the web)

Positive: works with original r1 instrument cluster/speedometer and several bike shops know how to tune with power commander
Negative: cheating the original ecu around, limited possibility to tune, lots of piggyback boxes with cabling that can fail and they cost more then the polestar ecu, no really fitting map ready to use so expensive hours on rolling rod


With polestar you need to buy:
- Polestar ECU with r1 mapping file
- mini R1 loom (200pounds)
- gauges what you think you need/want...

Positive: in total cheaper then above, free programmable ECu (do what you want and direct programming of all parameters) which works with A-Series and R1 and planned turbocharger upgrade, if you stay with exhaust hadder supplied in kit and open ITG Filter supplied map for R1 fits 98+x%=no Mapping needed, no piggybacks and complex heavy cabling that can fail
Negative: ECU do not deliver speed signal, so if needed you have to buy a solution eg bycicle speedometer. Will use an IPad mini with external gps mouse and Harry's Laptime timer which offers own timing on tracks and delivers speed based on gps, enough for the track.


Edited by Helldriver, 25 November 2014 - 02:26 PM.


#5 Helldriver

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 08:14 PM

a very handy page with a lot info an the R1:

 

http://www.robcollin...gine/index.html


Edited by Helldriver, 25 November 2014 - 03:52 PM.


#6 duds100

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 08:09 AM

Good choice on going R1 power for your mini! They are a weapon on track and can surprise much more exotic machinery!

 

The Polestar ECU looks like a good choice however it seems you have been misinformed somewhat on the power commander setup.

 

- There is no heavy cabling, no piggy back boxes. Just one small ECU with 2 tiny plugs that go into the standard loom & 1 earth.

- `Exup deleter` not required.

- Plenty of maps available to flash in to suit specific modifications.

- AIS removed is no issue for power commander. 

 

PC5 is £260 and is plug and play. Speedo healer £100. 



#7 Helldriver

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 02:12 PM

Good choice on going R1 power for your mini! They are a weapon on track and can surprise much more exotic machinery!

 

The Polestar ECU looks like a good choice however it seems you have been misinformed somewhat on the power commander setup.

 

- There is no heavy cabling, no piggy back boxes. Just one small ECU with 2 tiny plugs that go into the standard loom & 1 earth.

- `Exup deleter` not required.

- Plenty of maps available to flash in to suit specific modifications.

- AIS removed is no issue for power commander. 

 

PC5 is £260 and is plug and play. Speedo healer £100. 

 

power commander only modifies the fuel maps, nothing else. So if you use with power commander which only works with original ecu you also need the original loom and you need to

a) simulate exup otherwise you get error code 17, tacho hopping and massive power losses, power commander can't fix this.

b) AIS delete otherwise power loss, again power commander can't fix this

c) simulate "always on" for fall over security switch=> if you don't delete/simulate it engine won't start or if you use original switch in correct position, switch switches engine suddenly off due to g-forces you reach with slick (switch thinks bike is falling over) => not a good idea

 

heavy cabling:

original: full R1 loom, dash board loom, Ecu, power commander box with cables, speedo healer with cables, exup delete, AIS delete, 3 security switch deletes

polestar:  loom with just 10 cables, polestar ecu (same weight then original ecu)

=> should be minimum 500g difference plus potential failure of the boxes/deletes plus cheaper. I am throwing every gramm out that is not needed and don't cost me a fortune, it will be still a low budget racer.

 

Here are several builds and all had all this boxes (the orange one with lynx/joe250 etc.) build in. Sometimes the exup is fixed with a simple resistor, only prevents the tacho hopping but doesn't fix the rest.

PC 5: 260£

speedo healer: 100£

Exup delete: 60£

AIS: 20£

modified loom: 200£ (contains all the security switch deletes)

R1 tacho used: 150£

 

total for power commander setup: 830£

therefor you get a running system with original ecu, only fuel maps can be adjusted. If you want to rise rev limiter or put ignition forward for more power you need another modul for 200£

regarding maps: jon told me that hadn't a 5pw with power commander yet (all 5pw used polestar). lots of promotive out there with it but hadder is significantly different (more restrictive) and therefor maps not useable.

 

Polestar: 350£

Loom: 200£

Gauge: around 150£ for at set for RPM/oil/water can get used stuff for 50£

Total polestar 600 till 700£ I get a full programmable ecu where I can adjust fuel,ignition, rev limit, fan temps/speed etc. short all what I want to squeeze max out of a standard engine.

Several migila mini were or will be converted short-term with the lynx kit and the same hadder/airsystem intake (due to standard in miglia) so several 98% plus x fitting fuel maps will be available as normal development to support miglia races. 


Edited by Helldriver, 26 November 2014 - 02:42 PM.


#8 duds100

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 02:47 PM

a) Possibly you may get an engine check light but no loss of power and no tacho hop will be evident at all. 

b) Incorrect, there is no power loss - I have a dyno plot run with perfect fuelling using a PC5 and no AIS.

c) Not heard of this before but it should be easy enough to bypass if it is an electronic sensor. You would need to find out if it is a neg or pos ground. If neg just cut and join wires to disable it, if pos get a switch and cut the sensor out completely - would double as a theft deterrent kill switch!

 

Rev limiter is set at 11,750rpm as standard, peak power is around 10,500+/- no need to raise rev limit. If you fit race cams you will drop out some torque in the mid range and narrow your power band, pushing it all to the top end which is no good for a bike engined car and adjusting Ignition timing will give you negligible gains if any on a standard motor.

 

There are plenty of Pro-motive R1 conversions running an open air filter and 2" exhaust running a power commander map so there is just the same amount of tried and tested fuel maps available. 

 

Also, I don`t think an ipad mini display speedo with Harrys lap timer display is ideal if it will be using the apple devices accelerometer, these are inherently slow in their operation. 



#9 Helldriver

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 05:17 PM

a) Possibly you may get an engine check light but no loss of power and no tacho hop will be evident at all. 

b) Incorrect, there is no power loss - I have a dyno plot run with perfect fuelling using a PC5 and no AIS.

c) Not heard of this before but it should be easy enough to bypass if it is an electronic sensor. You would need to find out if it is a neg or pos ground. If neg just cut and join wires to disable it, if pos get a switch and cut the sensor out completely - would double as a theft deterrent kill switch!

 

Rev limiter is set at 11,750rpm as standard, peak power is around 10,500+/- no need to raise rev limit. If you fit race cams you will drop out some torque in the mid range and narrow your power band, pushing it all to the top end which is no good for a bike engined car and adjusting Ignition timing will give you negligible gains if any on a standard motor.

 

There are plenty of Pro-motive R1 conversions running an open air filter and 2" exhaust running a power commander map so there is just the same amount of tried and tested fuel maps available. 

 

Also, I don`t think an ipad mini display speedo with Harrys lap timer display is ideal if it will be using the apple devices accelerometer, these are inherently slow in their operation. 

how much hp/torgue your engine delivers?

 

a) maybe promotive fixing this already with their loom or did you do the loom yourself? Was told to me by everybody, google "exup delete" delivers this on the r1 forums and also the seller of my engines who raced this engine over 5 years told me this.

b) no AIS and you didn't use the set to close the wholes means you left them all open?

c) neither of both works. two solutions possible a) open the original sensor and glue the plenum or b) replace it with a 470ohm resistor between the yellow/green and black/blue wires, third cable just isolate it. If you didn't modified then promotive must have done solution b) otherwise your engine won't start. It is connector 20 in the electric plan of yamaha manual.

But I will see, will first get the engine running with original loom and ECU plus R1 tacho as I have all lying around. exup delete I will build myself. If I get a cheap used power commander 3 I will give it a try.

regarding maps: was told that promotive and lynx exhaust is different so maps do not fit very well but worth a try, would you send me your map for power commander?

 

Harry with ipad mini works excellent if you use an external 5hz GPS mouse, using this setup since 8 years on the track with the mini challenge. Using an old I phone 5 with head up display app in my BMW 1M as head up display projector for speed on the track (folie on the screen) and works absolutely accurate and fast, inline with speed shown on OEM Navigation. no time to look on the tacho with this beast and definitely good enough for the track, rpm and right gear matters much more :-)


Edited by Helldriver, 26 November 2014 - 08:56 PM.


#10 duds100

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 08:59 PM

a) My loom is built from scratch to save weight. I have done about 3000miles and 1 trackday and had no evidence of a loss in power or tacho miss reading
b) I drilled and tapped the holes and filled them with some steel bungs I made. Removing the pump & pipes saves 1.1kg
c) cool - i'll bear this in mind if I ever run slicks

Yeah I can send you my PC5 map no worries. It makes 69lb ft & 125whp @ wheels - I have no engine power figures but yamaha "claim" 152bhp. This map may not work well with the lynx kit though as I think the pro-motive exhaust manifold is quite restrictive. The 4 headers are very quickly squeezed into 1 on the manifold which will potentially not flow as-well-as the lynx exhaust so the fuelling may be wrong top end. I accepted this and intend to make my own manifold because I prefer the engine position in the pro-motive kit. The engine sits nice and low and is pushed right up to the bulkhead, maximising weight distribution.

5 ghz as you say is far superior and I agree with not really needing a speedo for track work. All I use on my R1 mini is the shift light, I find this does help. Gear and RPM are indeed of upmost importance - this is where I find it really hurts the a-series, 6 gears and a sequential box is nothing short of awesome on track!

Edited by duds100, 26 November 2014 - 09:00 PM.


#11 Helldriver

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 03:03 PM

could you upload here or per email (PN sent) send me a pic of your stripped loom so I see what is really needed. Rest you unpinned at the ECU-plug?

You are using r1 original instrument, then go into diagnostic mode and for sure it will show you error 17 or your ecu was flashed from previous owner directly if you don't have this.

 

regarding exup:

here is a clear explanation when you just unplugs what happens: fault code 17 triggers ecu to one ignition map only and this is for sure not the full throttle one.

http://biketransplant.tripod.com/exup_replacement.htm 

With promo you should have about 130hp+ if correct mapped with 5pw no exup delete could be the reason.

 

self made exup from link works but it will work also much simpler. Will sent you per email a simple exup deleter, just 5 resistors and 2 1N4148 diodes. Cost you 5 bucks and if you were able to strip the loom then this is piece of cake for you.



#12 Mini 360

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 04:02 PM

11 posts in and no pictures....get it sorted!  ;D



#13 duds100

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 04:03 PM

This is really interesting. I just rang the company that mapped my car and they said on the 02-03 model they are 90% sure exup removal does not effect power. However, as you say I expected 130bhp but I put it down to the manifold design. Thanks for your email. I will make the exup delete and go back to the dyno and see if I can find some Horsepower!

I can take some pictures of my loom but it is obviously currently routed through my car so it may be tricky to see. I will scan and email you a copy of my dyno sheet too for you to look at to see what you think. I'm testing away in Spain at the moment so will aim to email you next Tuesday.

#14 Helldriver

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 09:49 PM

So here are some pictures of mine. It is a track tool and form follows function, never aim to have concours quality. As long as it is robust, working it is ok for me as I am going to use it on tracks and eg dents are just normal.
43A79F41-371D-4A4B-8C8E-6048A506C438_zps

6411151B-DCD1-4DA2-9402-7EE4EE13199C_zps
Sorting the existing electrics of the mini and test fitting the Lynx cradle
909E7DD5-288F-4F14-A406-DE971D896DF9_zps
C2F597E8-5557-48C9-B507-AA0098B64A6B_zps

Edited by Helldriver, 21 December 2014 - 10:09 PM.


#15 Helldriver

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 10:05 PM

Lynx care package arrived
75650897-B83D-4F59-8DFE-E55F3264DC34_zps

78B37CDA-4C13-4B05-89B1-CD4DB91BB703_zps

R1 5pw with only 3000km total, AIS already de-installed
D7B03A3D-D60A-456C-AC89-CAEFB450F907_zps

Sorting the r1 loom
B0CF121E-974B-4A17-82A9-7DB68ED7898C_zps

Blue 8-pin connector, electric plan from handbook, Haynes and Internet states a 6-pin blue but mine has a 8-pin blue
729323C9-4B93-48E5-8771-EA21C188B0DB_zps

Edited by Helldriver, 21 December 2014 - 10:14 PM.





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