25 replies to this topic

[coopdog]

I have a turboed 998 and I can't get the oil to drain fast enough with gravity,

I'm gonna fit a scavenger pump is it ok just to connect straight to the bottom of the turbo to pull the oil through?

[mini13]

it should drain fine with just gravity,

 

do you have a pic of your setup? as long as its 10mm bore and goes down wards it should be fine.

 

Also double and tripple check your oil pressure with a few guages, a freind of mine had terrible smoking issues on his sidemount turbo setup, we eventually found that his guage was lieing and the oil pressure was 80 psi rather than 50...

 

on that subject, you deffo dont want too much pressure, 60 absolute max, but more like 50. also i dont like these "restrictors" you want to regulate it...not restrict it!!

[coopdog]

it should drain fine with just gravity,
 
do you have a pic of your setup? as long as its 10mm bore and goes down wards it should be fine.
 
Also double and tripple check your oil pressure with a few guages, a freind of mine had terrible smoking issues on his sidemount turbo setup, we eventually found that his guage was lieing and the oil pressure was 80 psi rather than 50...
 
on that subject, you deffo dont want too much pressure, 60 absolute max, but more like 50. also i dont like these "restrictors" you want to regulate it...not restrict it!!

Nah mate I've tried everything, oil psi is 45-55, there isn't enough fall in the drain. The bottom of the turbo is so close to the petrol pump hole they are basically side by side

[mini13]

hmm,

 

well they only normally give an issue of they can get an air lock like a sink trap,

 

rather than faffing around with pumps, I'd look at somwhere else to drain into, Ive heard of people using the hole for the speedo drive, but that means you cant use it for the speedo....

 

drilling the box would be easy if the engine was out... maybe drill the speedo hoousing somwhere?

[coopdog]

hmm,
 
well they only normally give an issue of they can get an air lock like a sink trap,
 
rather than faffing around with pumps, I'd look at somwhere else to drain into, Ive heard of people using the hole for the speedo drive, but that means you cant use it for the speedo....
 
drilling the box would be easy if the engine was out... maybe drill the speedo hoousing somwhere?

That means welding and swarf in the box.

Scavenger pump is the option im going for

[Phil-R]

Traditional turbo bearings don't need a restrictor, but ball bearing turbos deffinately do need one, or they'll smoke just the same as if you're drain wasn't working.

 

What turbo are you using? and when is it smoking?

 

Post back, or put a link to your build if you do fit a pump. I drilled a hole in my gearbox as I had it in pieces. Although a pump doesn't sound like a good solution to me, I appreciate that's not the question you asked and your circumstances are different to mine... but I wouldn't mind seeing your solution if you go ahead with it.

 

Cheers,

Phil

 

edit: typo

Edited by chrome, 23 November 2014 - 08:01 PM.

[coopdog]

Traditional turbo bearings don't need a restrictor, but ball bearing turbos deffinately do need one, or they'll smoke just the same as if you're drain wasn't working.
 
What turbo are you using? and when is it smoking?
 
Post back, or put a link to your build if you do fit a pump. I drilled a hole in my gearbox as I had it in pieces. Although a pump doesn't sound like a good solution to me, I appreciate that's not the question you asked and you're circumstances are different to mine... but I wouldn't mind seeing your solution if you go ahead with it.
 
Cheers,
Phil

It's a t2 turbo,

It's burning oil all the time and a lot when coming off boost, and also leaking out into the floor from the turbo seals.

I would drill the box and feed it into there but that's not an option as I'm not takin the engine apart just for that haha

[Phil-R]

A few other ideas...

 

It looks like a T2 is not a ball bearing turbo, so Garret says it needs 40-45PSI  at max revs. It may be worth fitting a restrictor to see if you can cut the flow down a little. A healthy oil pump will easily go over that required pressure.

 

Do you know the turbo is in good health? Worth doing a rebuild with new seals if there's any doubt

 

This is anecdotal, but I've seen almost horizontal oil drains that people claim work just fine.

 

If your crankcase breathers aren't up to much and if the piston rings are tired, the extra crankcase pressure visible at the drain will have an effect. When you say the oil is leaking on to the floor, I wonder if there's excess crank case pressure. Easy to test - just take the oil filler cap off and let it idle for a few minutes. If the amount of smoke goes down, then you have a breather problem.

 

Get a different manifold to mount the turbo higher. It may work out cheaper and easier than working out how to fit a pump - there's lot of people running T2 turbos so I'm sure lots of info on getting yours working... maybe worth reposting in the forced induction section or on Turbo Minis. I suspect you'll see many of the same answers, but here's no reason why fitting a pump can't be done if you're set on it.

 

Good luck!

[coopdog]

A few other ideas...
 
It looks like a T2 is not a ball bearing turbo, so Garret says it needs 40-45PSI  at max revs. It may be worth fitting a restrictor to see if you can cut the flow down a little. A healthy oil pump will easily go over that required pressure.
 
Do you know the turbo is in good health? Worth doing a rebuild with new seals if there's any doubt
 
This is anecdotal, but I've seen almost horizontal oil drains that people claim work just fine.
 
If your crankcase breathers aren't up to much and if the piston rings are tired, the extra crankcase pressure visible at the drain will have an effect. When you say the oil is leaking on to the floor, I wonder if there's excess crank case pressure. Easy to test - just take the oil filler cap off and let it idle for a few minutes. If the amount of smoke goes down, then you have a breather problem.
 
Get a different manifold to mount the turbo higher. It may work out cheaper and easier than working out how to fit a pump - there's lot of people running T2 turbos so I'm sure lots of info on getting yours working... maybe worth reposting in the forced induction section or on Turbo Minis. I suspect you'll see many of the same answers, but here's no reason why fitting a pump can't be done if you're set on it.
 
Good luck!

Turbo has been rebuilt and is like new,
An the engine recently been rebuilt too,

I've spoken to a couple of boys about the problem, and they think it's my drain,

When I next go down I'll have a look and the crank case pressure

I only have one breather on the tapper case, could I add anymore with having to take anything apart?

I know you can have on the timing chain cover but that means taking the radiator out.

[69k1100]

This has some useful info

http://www.approvedt...bleshooting.pdf

[Steve220]

A few questions as it seems to be a rather sporadic assumption to blame the drain. Oil from the turbo drains through the pressure from the feed and therefore the only way it wouldn't be sufficient if the drain ID was narrower then the feed by some large sum. A few more questions:

How do you know what the oil pressure going to the turbo is?

How do you know the oil drain isn't working properly?

Where are you taking your oil feed for the turbo from?

Where is the oil pressure gauge sensor plumbed into?

What engine block/head breather have you got?

Lastly when exactly does it smoke? If it's all the time, it's either your turbo seals or Pistons rings failed.

Edited by Steve220, 24 November 2014 - 10:52 AM.

[coopdog]

This has some useful info

http://www.approvedt...bleshooting.pdf

Ah nice, I'll have a good read now

[coopdog]

A few questions as it seems to be a rather sporadic assumption to blame the drain.

How do you know what the oil pressure going to the turbo is?

How do you know the oil drain isn't working properly?

Where are you taking your oil feed for the turbo from?

Where is the oil pressure gauge sensor plumbed into?

What engine block/head breather have you got?

Lastly when exactly does it smoke? If it's all the time, it's either your turbo seals or Pistons rings failed.

I'm taking the oil feed from where the oil pressure gauge is and the oil pressure is t piece onto that.

The oil seals are fine because it's just been rebuilt and all that's good, the turbo seals are also fine because the company that rebuilt it have had it twice and checked all to be in good order.

As for the breathers I only have the one in the tappet chest cover, so that may be the trouble.

Oil pressure is 55 when cold and 40 when warm.

I think it's actually ok when it's cold but as soon as it's up to temp that's when it starts dripping from the turbo itself and burning a small amount,

I think it's the drain because the oil isn't draining out of the turbo fast enough filling up the tubo and pushing it's way past the seals :L but like what's been said already that might be because of my lack of breathers?

I'll give you a little back ground, the first time I got it running it was pouring smoke out the exhaust and it turned out the turbo seal were fudged, got it rebuilt, then it was still leaking with that the oil drain was like 8mm so I up'd that to 19mm and it stopped when up to temp and just idling took it for a drive got on boost and it smoked, parked up and it started dripping again so I have no idea

I've only driven the car once because of the problem and I know when I was on boost and came off throttle and a lot off smoke came out of the exhaust.

Sorry for the wall of text

Edited by coopdog, 24 November 2014 - 11:13 AM.

[Phil-R]

When I next go down I'll have a look and the crank case pressure

I only have one breather on the tapper case, could I add anymore with having to take anything apart?

I know you can have on the timing chain cover but that means taking the radiator out.

 

 

Easiest to get hold of and fit would be the timing chain cover. If that's the fix then you've gotten off lightly!

 

Second most likely would be to look out for a modified rocker cover that has a hose barb welded to the side

 

Lastly, Some minis / metros ha a breather on the drop gear casing, directly below the engine steady. It looks like it sits over the flywheel, but it actually vents into the engine block. If you're really really lucky it's already drilled, threaded and blanked off, but most of the time it's only cast into the the aluminium but not machined.

 

Is that 55/40 PSI at full revs or idle ?? 

 

Can you see exactly where the drip is coming from? A drain restriction shouldn't cause a leak from the turbo casing. And just to confirm, we're talking about smoke coming out of the exhaust and not smoke from oil dripping onto a hot exhaust?

Edited by chrome, 24 November 2014 - 11:19 AM.

[coopdog]

When I next go down I'll have a look and the crank case pressure

I only have one breather on the tapper case, could I add anymore with having to take anything apart?

I know you can have on the timing chain cover but that means taking the radiator out.
 

 
Easiest to get hold of and fit would be the timing chain cover. If that's the fix then you've gotten off lightly!
 
Second most likely would be to look out for a modified rocker cover that has a hose barb welded to the side
 
Lastly, Some minis / metros ha a breather on the drop gear casing, directly below the engine steady. It looks like it sits over the flywheel, but it actually vents into the engine block. If you're really really lucky it's already drilled, threaded and blanked off, but most of the time it's only cast into the the aluminium but not machined.
 
Is that 55/40 PSI at full revs or idle ?? 
 
Can you see exactly where the drip is coming from? No drain problem should cause a leak from the turbo casing. And just to confirm, we're talking about smoke coming out of the exhaust and not smoke from oil dripping onto a hot exhaust?

.

Edited quote as you was replying haha

But yeah 40 at idle, ATM I'm thinking the rocker cover would be the best idea as that would be the easiest one to do, I could easily get a breather welded on

And to confirm it's dripping from the core to exhaust side and also out the exhaust